Sunday, March 7, 2010

March Horse

I cannot remember who suggested it, but this month's horse is for sale. This economy is bad for horse people trying to sell, but it's great for people who still have money and want to get into them. This month's mare would be an exceptional gal to have hanging around. I personally think it's awesome enough she looks like she is wearing a jousting mask with those eyes of hers.

She is located in Ostrander, Ohio, and her description reads as such:

"Beautiful 14 yr old, 16h snowcap Appaloosa mare by Wap’s Spot 2. Showing Training level, working First level. Ridden and shown by a junior rider for the last 18 mo. Regularly placed last show season. Will jump small fences and can be taken out on trail rides. Wowie is an agreeable mare and is good for the vet, farrier, etc. She travels well and is current on vaccinations and negative Coggins. Lifetime registrations with USEF and USDF as well as ApHC. Proven broodmare (colt ’05). Sadly for sale as I am downsizing. For more information please call or email Julie and Ron Clark, trainers at Maryhill Farm, Ostrander, OH. Price reduced as I really must sell her, to a good home only. Now asking $7000.00 neg."

For more information, take a look here.


  1. 7000.00 negotiable. LMAOROTF!! Guess she's not for sale for the middle class.

  2. Goodness no. I made sure to find a really nice horse that will take somebody somewhere if they want to. Honestly, if I had the money and was into showing this horse would be in my pasture. I think there is a very good chance this mare could do wonders if she didn't have a junior rider on her.

  3. That is a snappy looking girl! And with her training for the price...

  4. With as much money and time as I put into my psuedo rescue horse, I'd happily pay that much for a well trained, up to date on all vet care, registered appy.

  5. That is a very nice mare.

    As for Anon...You just keep rolling on the floor laughing your ass off...the "dumping" is coming to a close and people who want nice horses that have not been starved, neglected and dumped at some point in their lives are going to have to pay for them.

    Feel free to go "rescue" something. Hope they are healthy, sound, trained, sane and safe...and could possibly be competitive at something?

    ROFLMAO...Good luck with that!

  6. I looked up her sire, and wow. The farm he was at before passing away throws out some NICE appy sport horses. She definitely was a part of a well thought out breeding (duh) and she clearly is worth the 7K.

    Here's some of the offspring of Waps 2:

    Somebody needs to snatch up the horses they have for sale. They are selling a lot due to the death of a wife from what I have gathered. They are across the ocean, but who cares? I don't see many that nice here in the states sometimes!

  7. Nope, sorry, the "dumping" is no where near to an end. Like I said, that mare ain't priced for the middle class and lower.

  8. There are still people who pay for a good horse. Most people in the real horse world still have money and still buy horses. Not every person wants a rescue horse or a cheap horse.

  9. Perhaps there is a very good reason for that, anon 7:09. Maybe they don't want to sell to someone who doesn't appreciate a good horse. Appreciation of a good horse doesn't come automatically with higher income, of course.

    But hey, the hypothetical you wants a horse in your back-yard, doing little to nothing, agreed, that's not the horse for you.

    Lovely mare, priced to reflect her value/quality/training/experience/breeding.

    Horses to be kept as pets do indeed require a different type of "breeder" altogether.

  10. Sorry, forgot to say..
    And I hope she finds a great home.
    These times are tough for everybody who didn't make the Fortune 500 last year.

  11. Anon, I don't see anything wrong with featuring a high quality, well bred, and wonderfully broke/talented horse. Yes she isn't up for grabs at $1000, but she is worth the $7000.

    Maybe if she was lone mare from a stallion who was happening to do well, maybe it would decrease her value, but she's not. Her sire put out a lot of great foals on the ground. A lot of appys I see now are also majority solid here. Frankly the fact she color alone is a shocker to me.

    Before the economy was ruined, she would have been snatched up for more money by an upper/middle-class family who was into showing, etc. Sadly the people who are in the shows now are the people who always had money before and can still afford to show. Still, there are people out there who maybe have the money and the riding talent for this mare who don't have their own horse. Honestly, somebody who has worked hard in their work and riding would definitely deserve this mare as their horse.

  12. I never came across stating that I want a rescue horse. I don't want to end up with someone elses problem. If they threw it away, there's a good reason why they did. But the market for horses ain't no where near as good as it used to be and throw in a crappy economy, real horse people, you know, the ones who don't have much left over after bills, and insurance and car and house payments, all that happy jazz, don't come by 7000.00 as easy as someone who has life a little easier. In fact, it feels a little discriminatory to me. You work hard, try to keep a little stashed away for the surprises life has, then make the statement that something you could buy a car for is being asked for a horse, and you get people jumping down your throat. I work my ass off, I love horses, but the way you people act, it's wrong to think anything over 2500.00 is far too much, training included.

  13. Beautiful horse. Lovely young lady. I hope someone who will treat her right and give her the best that they can offer her will scoop her up and treat her like the Queen that she is.

    If I had 7 grand, I would use it as a down payment on a Fresian or Shire or...but that's just my personal taste in horses. As it is, I have stuck with the lower priced horses simply because I can comfortably afford them. $2000 has been my max paid and she is well worth it.

    I do love the rescue horses because my heart goes out to them due to their past, poorly cared for experiences in life and I want to show them life is better; they just needed someone who cares. The look in their eyes, the soft nickers they give when they see me coming

    Is priceless.

    I wish all the best for this horse featured today. She deserves nothing less.

  14. Anon(Oh ye of the car comparison)...REAL horse people realize quality when they see it and can appreciate that the people who have invested their time, their knowledge and their money into a quality horse have the right to price a horse accordingly. There is no need for you to snark at it, just because you cannot afford it or simply don't want to pay that much.

    I think the real issue is, for whatever reason YOU are unable to find the horse YOU want at the price YOU are willing to pay. Considering what the horse market has been like for the last couple of years...maybe the problem is YOU?

    If anything I have not heard anyone complaining that they have been unable to find suitable horses for a little bit of nothing. In fact it is quite the opposite...REAL horse people have been frustrated that there are so many quality horses available for such reasonable prices and most of us just don't have the room for more.

    So BTW...what exactly is your purchasing power? $100, $300, $

    Maybe if you spent less time snarking at what most of us consider reasonable pricing for quality animals and simply outlined; What you want, the price you are willing to pay and the general area you are in...People could help you find something suitable. You might be surprised at the power of networking. Obviously, your "friends" haven't helped you out...maybe others can?

  15. CinammonSwirl I do believe she is from Pennsylvania and is currently being trained in Ohio. I know the Waps line of Appys are from PA. I don't know across the water is for you.

    To anon saying the mare wasn't for sale to the middle class. You said this like it was a bad thing. So, why are you upset? Show horses and field hunters are luxury items much like four carat flawless pink diamonds, summer houses in the Hamptons, Ferrari Testarossas, 60' yachts or full length sable fur coats.

    Not everything you want has to be in your price bracket. Horses cost about as much as a just for fun car. Why are you complaining? You want something for nothing?

    "real horse people, you know, the ones who don't have much left over after bills, and insurance and car and house payments, all that happy jazz, don't come by 7000.00 as easy as someone who has life a little easier. In fact, it feels a little discriminatory to me. You work hard, try to keep a little stashed away for the surprises life has, then make the statement that something you could buy a car for is being asked for a horse, and you get people jumping down your throat. I work my ass off, I love horses, but the way you people act, it's wrong to think anything over 2500.00 is far too much, training included."

    All of my life, until recently, horses have been a luxury. Are you resentful that rich people can afford things you can't? If so be resentful that rich people can afford health care. We all need health care. You can live without a horse, living without health care is dicey at best.

    What makes you believe that rich people are "real" horse people? Because they can afford good stables, good trainers, good lessons, good horses? A little more class resentment here? You don't like it, that doesn't mean it's not fair.

    I'm sure you will find a horse in your price range and will give it a wonderful home. Stop whining, it's unbecoming to an adult.

  16. Anon said "I never came across stating that I want a rescue horse. I don't want to end up with someone elses problem. If they threw it away, there's a good reason why they did."

    Maybe the reason is they could no longer afford the horse, horses are EXPENSIVE. Do you have the bucks to keep a horse? How about training and lessons for you? Emergency vet bills or farrier care? How about tack and blankets? Wormer? Where I live, (next to a big city) full board with two lessons a week is around $1,000.00 a month.
    Do you have three months of saving to live off of for your self and your horse? Have you started a retirement fund? Have you paid off all your credit cards? Get this money up first then start looking for a horse.

  17. Kaede, I am well aware that horses are expensive. My head is not in the sand, but well grounded in reality. I can afford feed, hay, farrier and vet, but I refuse to spend more than 2000 for a horse. You know, I could go on and on, but all I am seeing is the same ugly arguing that I could see on the fugly blog. If someone disagrees, no matter what it is, the group falls in on them. Looks like the same thing here.

  18. I was talking about professional horse people when I used the word "real". There are people out there who ride horses for a living. There are people who make 6 figures a year and up from riding horses.

  19. No Kidding, wow, I knew there was HUGE money to be made in horses!

    Since you refuse to spend more than 2k, I guess you'll just have to keep looking for that nice horse you want.
    Confused, though. How are any of us snarking?

    Does your maximum price range for a horse, mean that ALL horses are over-priced, if they are over 2k?

    "all I am seeing is the same ugly arguing that I could see on the fugly blog. If someone disagrees, ...."

    You are allowed to disagree, and certainly, "we" (the royal we) can too.

    Maybe you miss all the cursing and swearing and insults?
    wrong blog, I guess.

  20. Different Anon here - I kind of felt that BrownEyed Cowgirls took the original anon's comments out of context and then continued the perceived snark. To me snark is not just swearing and insults but a demonstrated condescending just because someone does not agree completely with another. Tone carries much weight and can easily be misunderstood.

    I do not know the other anon but MAYBE that anon is looking for a nice horse between the rescue and the gorgeous appy was presented today. As a newbie, I also have a hard time believing there is nothing in between. Do they have to have perfect confirmation and be show ready? I am hoping to find a horse for me that I do not plan on showing and place a priority on health and attitude. Would that horse be $7000? If I were to find a nice grade horse, probably not.

  21. PS I do think that appy is a beautiful horse and hope nothing but the best for that horse and all the others that need to be sold from that farm....

  22. If you're spending less than 2000 for a horse you are getting something that you are going to be putting a lot of time into, and time is money. There's no way I would sell the horse I currently have for less than $4000.

    She was given to me and was just a mess, I easily put over $2000 in her just to get her up to be a horse I'd sell for $1000, but now that I've spent 5 to 6 days a week with her and taken her to several shows, no way am I selling her for under $4000.

    I don't think people realize that an "affordable" horse often means teeth probably have been neglected, farrier work probably not done on a regular schedule, or done by a sub par farrier, worming issues. All of these things can't be fixed by just one visit from the vet and farrier. If their teeth have been badly neglected the vets will want to recheck them within a week and have them done again in six months. Shoddy (no pun intended!) farrier work often means several visits closer together than a horse that has had good care for several years. Supplements to get them up to just maintainance level.
    I kind of think that's why broke people stay broke, they make very poor economic decisions thinking it will save them money but in the long run costs them a lot more. Not a bash on poor people, I'm just talking about my experience in the horse world, I see this all the time and it drives me crazy. This is a big reason we have the kind of horse market we have today.

    So, yeah, I'd love a turn key horse! I'd happily pay 7 grand for that Appy:)

  23. Interesting post on the Wench, today.
    Can't say I disagree with her.

    Good points by all the anons.

  24. When I have acquired a rescue horse in the past, I know that he/she needs basic care, repairing of damage done by previous neglect, etc. I realize it costs quite a bit of money to bring that horse back to some semblence of good health. I chose not to get involved in showing horses because I knew the costs involved were quite high. I chose rather to sink whatever money I had to spare into reviving a down and out horse who, through no fault of their own, suffered at the hands of a neglectful owner and one who needed someone to care enough to provide him/her with good care. Could I have used that money instead to show my registered horses? Yes. I just chose not to do so. There is satisfaction to be had in all horse endeavors, whether they are of the showing kind or rescuing kind. It's all in the desire of the person with the money to choose what they want to do in life.

    Seeing a horse who was once starved, etc, looking like a million bucks after several months of care is reward enough for all the $ spent on that horse.

    Seeing a horse perform in the arena in whatever capacity the owner has chosen to pursue, is also very, very rewarding and brings pride in ownership to that person, who shelled out countless dollars to achieve their goal. Nothing at all wrong with that either.

    If a person can find a throw away horse for cheap and turn that horse into a first class show horse, all the better for the horse and the person. Does it happen often? No. But it does happen.

    One of the things I admire about people who take in wild Mustangs, is their ability to gentle that horse and go on to ride the trails, do endurance rides, perform in drill teams, etc. It's nothing short of amazing what people can do with the horses they have.

    As they used to say, "it's all good".

  25. Does anyone have the link to the wench blog?


  27. I read the Wench post and I don't think she gets it. I didn't read any comments stating that they believed Dena to be innocent. The post was about whether or not Dena is innocent. which is for a court to decide not people on the internet, she deserves not to be stocked. Personally, I'm waiting for the courts to sort it out and present a final verdict before I assign culpability. If she's guilty then be it. I don't see how this opinion is wrong.

  28. Anon.,
    Here's a nice looking Shire for sale at

    He's young but they already backed him (yes, I know, a two year old). So he has some training under his belt.

  29. As far as Wench's comment on insurance fraud. I don't know who identified the tack. It could have been the insurance company searching for it online followed by the owners identifying it was theirs. We are not involved in the investigation so who knows what happened. Dena is allowed to present her side and it will be resolved by the courts in the end.

  30. The owner identified the tack, on-line, and got the police involved, per the news story, and the thread on the FiSH forum.

    Sorry, I also agree that Dena should NOT be saying anything about this case. She sounds more guilty, with each and every post she makes.

  31. To Anon 8:38 am

    Oh my, isn't he a beautiful boy. I wish I could get him but it's just not possible at this time. However, it doesn't stop me from ooohing and ahhhing and wishing. Ha. I knew a lady who got one for $1000 once. He supposedly had COPD. She turned around and sold him to someone several states away for $4000. I don't think she ever told the guy he was believed to have COPD. She has since moved away so I never found out if the man who bought him went after her for false advertising or what. He was a pretty boy though but not well trained at all. She tried to ride him and he refused to allow her to tack him up. He was having none of that. God knows what she told the man who bought him. I hope he (the horse) is doing well now and the man has checked into the COPD situation and had him trained properly. It's people like this woman who give horse selling a bad name. Honesty is first and foremost in selling a horse.

  32. Anon,
    Then she looks guilty. I don't see how this justifies stocking her?

  33. This is what worries me about Fug's blog. True most of the examples given in this article were extreme. But, when and where to draw the line? Fug's and the whole Dena thing give me the creeps. We are a nation of laws and liberty, not the Cultural Revolution USA edition. The Human Flesh Search Engine concept is why I first started looking at Blogs in the first place. It is an interesting Information Science concept, How do Netizens use information to police themselves? As it turns out, they use it to try and police other people they don't like. Which is was one of the ideas behind the Cultural Revolution. Anonymous people could make claims that Xu was "liberal bourgeois" because he owned antiques. True enough. Xu had bought the antiques when they were new, 50 years ago. But now an anonymous person could report him to a CR newspaper and poof Xu's house could be destroyed but a mob and he would be without a house, food clothing all at age 70.
    I fear that this is the idea behind Fug's blog. I find this ironic because Fug's claims to be a conservative, you know As Ronnie RayGun said "The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom.." And things like the HFSE thrive when a government wants to have more control over its citizenry.

  34. By a mob. Often by folks who were jealous, envious, bullies or just scared that they would be next if they didn't participate in the "shaming". I don't want to see that here in the USA. If I'm doing something you don't like but it is legal, work to change the laws. If it is illegal call the cops and document, let the courts do their work. It is ultimately safer for everyone this way. 'Cause, sure as shooting, someone is going to take a dislike to you and come after you eventually. I don't want anyone coming after me if I happen to own an ungelded buckskin quarterhorse, or feel free to geld said horse themselves. Cause that is where this type of mob mentality ends up. Go read about the French Revolution for awhile particularly about the street courts/justice...

  35. Great post Kaede. Really interesting article and great food for thought. Personally, I'm equally interested in what constitute an effective response to animal abuse. I see doing things in an effective way is just as important as laying claims against an animal abuser.

  36. bhm- I believe you mean 'stalking' not stocking. Stocking is like stocking the shelves at the grocery store. Stalking is following someone around in a persistant, creepy and nosy manner.

    As far as the appy mare goes, even some people would consider the price of $7K a 'low end throw away' horse. And for whoever stated anything under $2K needs work- Newsflash- they all do, at all levels, in all price ranges.

    Need an example? An 'expensive' horse can be trained to the hilt and win across the board. Change owner, trainer and riders and it all goes south. Horse begins placing not winning and is soon up for sale. Price? Not likely to be what it was.

    Put the original rider back on and they have to fix what has been screwed up as well as other problems that have been created. But is the original rider/trainer likely to get the horse back? Probably not. Many times ego's get in the way. "I will ship the horse to the knackers before you get them back." First time anyone has heard those words?

    If the horse is now offered at a lower price does that mean a rider of more or less talent is going to pick them up? Who is to say.

    The new owner- will they will fix the new problems or create more? Should they continue to further the damage- the horses price will drop again. The horse could very well be 'culled' or given away at any point just to get them out of the barn. High dollar horse with numerous titles and tons of training and talent has spiralled downward. So has their price.

    Anyone with the talent to bring the horse back around, could do it and take them back to the top. Once there, what is there value then? Are they still free or still a low end worthless horse?

    For those with the money to spend on a horse- say $20K-$30K or more. They most likely won't bother looking at anything less than $10K, because to them it's just sinking to a whole new level of low. They are not bottom feeders and likely wouldn't be caught dead on someone elses mistakes or 'throw-a-way'. Oh the horrors of riding on a horse like that...

    Anon <3

  37. BHM, which Wench post were you talking about? I didn't look too carefully, but I didn't see a recent Dena post.

    I spet some time on Dream Horse today looking for a horse that would be with in 100 miles of me (cause otherwise shipping is going to start costing big bucks and must be factored in to the price of the horse) I found 27 horses that were priced between 1500.00 and 2500.00 All the horses were either trail horses, on the hot side, needed training (green broke 90 days training) really old (over 20) or really young (under 2). Sooo no turnkey show horses out there, or at least in my neck of the woods. Doesn't mean the available horses aren't "nice" or maybe just what anon wanted, just that you need to compare apples to apples. A finished horse capable of showing and winning at Devon isn't a horse with 90 days training. Anymore than by beloved Saturn is a SLK class Mercedes, nor would I want it to be.

  38. Kaede,

    This is Wenches comment. I think that because we are saying that stalking, yes, anon, I finally got it right, snork, is a bad response does not mean that we think Dena is innocent. Two completely different points:

    I'm stopping this blog because it has lost its meaning. It went from being about Cathy to being a hide out for a few people that I would never IRL associate with and after seeing details of what has gone on in the past few months, it became very clear that I don't want to associate with some of you even on the internet.

    Dena- You stole tack. You might have your cronies believing every word that falls from your mouth, but not this old hag. I've read your blog(LBTD) and am appalled at the lengths someone goes to try and place blame on the victim, like you have done to the people you stole tack from. Face it, if they wanted to scam an insurance company then WHY ON EARTH GET COPS INVOLVED WHEN THEY SEE THEIR STOLEN TACK ONLINE? My daughter has said it before and I'll say it again. If they wanted to defraud insurance they would have played dumb and not gotten the police involved.
    You got caught red handed. YOU are the one with the criminal record. YOU are the one that had to enter into a plea. YOU are the one that invaded someones property and shattered their feeling of security. Deal with that and quit playing poor pitiful me.

    For those that are enabling this thief- I don't understand and never will. But Dena has you all snowed. I don't care what she tells you over email, telephone, or telegram. She is a criminal. If what was printed in her local papers about her being busted for tack theft was false, then why not persue legal action to have the articles retracted? You know why? Because it's ALL true. It doesn't take a genius to see this. She got busted! There is no harm in admitting that you put trust or faith into a person that let you down and proved you all wrong. I'm not going to neener neener neener at you, I don't think anyone would. I think if you take a step back and review the situation, you'd see. Had this NOT been Dena doing this deed, had it been some person you've never heard of that did what Dena has been accused of, would you still be looking at the situation in the same light?

    So continue to post on the other blog. I could care less as I read most of the comments over there too and it's not my cup of tea. You have to wonder, can she really be that righteous if she has to have all of you proclaiming her innocence ALL THE TIME? I'm letting you all know where I stand. I am for the horses and for supporting the actual innocents. I'm letting you know why this blog stopped.

  39. One advantage of being almost older than dirt is being able to remember "the good old days."

    Way back then, I traded my way up to my dream horse for $5000. I thought he was worth more than I paid for him; the primary reason he was so low was because he was 18 years old and had gotten a little sour with his previous owner. His previous barn was a very famous facility in the Chicago area, gorgeous but didn't have enough land that every horse could have turn out every day.

    I bet that at my little barn in Iowa, where horses got turn out every day except when it was too icy, his attitude would probably come right back around. His legs were clean as a whistle, even though he'd competed in jumpers for a bunch of years, so I figured he'd stay sound.

    It turned out I bet right. A week of turn out made a huge difference in his attitude and we had ten more years of fun together, including showing quite successfully, before I retired him. We competed and won over horses that cost more than 10X what I spent for him.

    Here's what boggles me: I bought him in the middle 70s. Back then, I also got my first entry level job, which paid $0.95/hour. You read that right, less than a dollar per hour.

    It's hard to translate from jumpers to eventers but I'd say that my gelding was showing on a higher level than this Appy mare (open jumper vs training/first level eventer).

    In the time since I bought my gelding, the price of everything has gone up. Minimum wage is now more than six times what it was back then. The price of a gallon of gas was $0.15/gallon the year I got my first driver's license.

    And yet horses are still going for roughly the same price.

    This does not compute!

  40. Kaede, the human-flesh search engine was one of the creepiest things I've ever read.

    And it plays out right there on FHOTD. Isn't that what she was trying to get people to do to Hercules' former owner?

  41. BHM said
    "I'm equally interested in what constitute an effective response to animal abuse. I see doing things in an effective way is just as important as laying claims against an animal abuser".

    I don't have an answer to that, I've never been able to come up with one that works in a land of Liberty and Justice. Please note It's Liberty and Justice not Family Values (which was close on to what the Vichy Regimes' motto was.)
    Societies that value liberty and justice have a tendency to be messy. When does what you don't like become a problem and should be illegal? Does it matter if it is my backyard as opposed to in the middle of Idaho?

    Example: rules about what length to dock sheep's tails are being changed because fair goers don't like the look of a prolapsed rectum.(Who does?) I'm not sure that has much to do with the well being of the sheep. (a high energy diet seems to be a huge factor)

    So are the laws changed for all sheep or just show sheep? Please note no one is suggesting feed the lambs differently.

    So, is it it animal abuse because fair goers don't like the look of a prolapsed rectum and leaving a longer tail will hide it but not change the underlying problem? In other words is it animal abuse because it looks bad to the public? Or is there a real need to lengthen the length of sheep's tails? If so, what can we do about it? Most sheep ranchers dock their own sheep's tails, can the behavior be changed? At what cost?

    I wish that everyone did treat all living things with like the Jains do with kindness, courtesy and respect.

    But, The Jain can live "without violence" (no farming because they might kill bugs) because they exploit others to farm for them. Others might be condemned to the cycle of rebirth, but their hands are 'clean'.

    I guess evil will always be with us.

  42. There are really great gems for much cheaper. I will not deny this. Many a good horse can be as cheap as free. This horse isn't suitable for a beginner so much as a more serious rider looking to move up, etc.

    I like to look for ads where the horse has pictures of it at least being ridden. This way I know they aren't just blowing smoke. this horse almost made it this would have made the cut not the prettiest neck, but affordable.

    Honestly, the lower priced ones look like this guy
    and they are often not ridden, or they are green.

    As for the blog entry on the other blog...
    I have no comment on it, really. I didn't say much on the entry (I think one comment stating I didn't agree with that she did and how I didn't know her if I remember right) I won't say anything more on the matter, either.

  43. I'm lost, which blog is being stopped?? This one?

    To the anon that originally posted about that horse not being for middle class buyers. I think you misunderstood some of the responses.

    None of us would codemn rescuing, I'm sure we;ve all done our fair share. What I was trying to convey with my original response to lower priced horses being spendy is that you can either spend the money up front with a well cared for trained horse, or you can pour money into a rescue, basically it will all come out a wash.

  44. Anon,
    No, it's a post from Wench as to why she stopped Fugly Wench Of The Day.

  45. I got my girls going on sixteen years ago (My Heavens, but I was just nineteen!!) for 1300 dollars. The people we bought them from was clearing out their stock and going into paints. I went originally just to get my mare as weanling, but we took her mother too, because they were selling what didn't go to slaughter.

    I love my girls, but it was Momma Mare who tried to grate a driveway with my elbows. (Hence why I'm being a big fat cowardly puss and needing something to build my confidence with)Long story short, I think price reflects your region and what you're looking for, too. I've had two friends have perfectly good horses that were given to them, broke, sound and nice. (Too small for me! *Flails*) and I have seen good horses for sale for under a thousand. Just depends on what you want to do with them.

    As for the Wench, it's good to hear from her, again. I wish she would come here and post. I really like her, I like where her head is sitting firmly on her shoulders. I am sorry that she shut her blog down, but I am glad for this one. I don't have any comment or opinion of Dena.

    ~DK Sore throat, AWAAAAAY!

  46. Oh, also, LOOOOVE that appy mare, and maybe someone can answer a question for me. I've noticed that a lot of apps have vision problems. I see a lot for sale with "Blah blah blah-blind." Or "Blah-blah-blah blind in one eye." but I see a lot of people talking about their apps having lost their vision. Even Bright Zip, John Lions app, is blind. Does that pertain to a certain line? I personally think it's because people have tried to breed for the color and got this problem. I also seem to notice it's more of the apps with the black face mask, too.

    I love them. The very first horse I went to look at was a red road flea bitten app. Man, I wish we could have bought him.


  47. Pretty pretty with any want race car steering, lots of horsepower, low mileage and chrome, no dents or dings, plus good rubber it's going to cost more. Especially if you want to go to the rally! A decent ride to just get around town is not nearly as expensive, if you don't mind putting money into repairs.

    Sometimes you can get lucky enough to find an old widow to rob out of her hubby's old classic...but is that morally okay?

  48. That reminds me of the song "Private Malone". The guy went to look at an old chevy, being sold by an older woman and when he removed the tarp covering it, there was a 63 Corvette. The car had belonged to her son who was killed in the war. The guy paid the $1000 for it (a steal) and went carousing around in it. He had no problem paying the woman what she was asking.

    Me? I'm too honest and would have filled her in on the fact that the car was a classic and she should have it appraised before selling it.

    Others would have just paid for it and RAN, not walked, away. To each his own I guess.

    I also have no comment where Dena and her problem is concerned. As others have stated, I'll wait for the court to decide what went on with her case.

  49. I just couldn't let it be, so here's what I posted...

    FWOTD, I'm sorry if you think I'm proclaiming Dena innocent...or guilty for that matter. My stance is that it is for the court to decide, because in this country the law states that we are innocent until proven guilty. I am watching the news and waiting for an actual legal judgement before I make a decision. I really do not have an opinion in either direction, since I personally do not know the entire set of circumstances or any of the participants involved.

    My concern with Dena's case, and also the case of many others that have been attacked by the fugly blog crowd,is that when anyone is tried and convicted in the court of public opinion without the validation of a trial,('someone said so and so did such and such, so it must be true, so it's our duty to hunt them and their children down and destroy them...') it is far too easy to get sucked into personal vendettas or mistaken identity.

    Encouraging stalkers is dangerous business, even if we do believe another person deserves to be punished. Vigilantes often make mistakes by placing more emphasis on emotion than reason. Publishing names and emails and encouraging followers to do what they can to destroy people's lives because they may be doing something you or I may not agree with, (for instance, sending a rank horse to auction) is something that I personally must take a stand against.

    Going after anyone's child should be considered despicable in any society. When the poster is going after a beautifully turned out child showing a lovely horse, the smell of sour grapes should be enough to put off any parent!

  50. Lots of interesting comments here. On the price thing - I've thought about this a lot. Basically, what it comes down to is a horse is worth what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to let it go for. No more no less.
    The problem I see with the horse industry is it is a "false need." What I mean is, nobody NEEDS to have a horse like, for example, they need a car to get to work or clothes to wear or food to eat or shelter over their head. Heck, even computers are more "necessary" in today's day and age than a horse. Horses are a luxury. Therefore the prices they go for are a "bubble" based on how "luxurious" we are all feeling. Basically all the horse industry is like this. I feel like I'm being marketed to (and scammed) in the worst way every time I go into one of my local tack stores and see the endless amounts of bright and shiny and EXPENSIVE things that are apparently a MUST for owning a horse....
    This makes me feel sad, for the horses sake. I have a romantic notion that the state of horses was more secure, in general, when horses did truly have an economic value in our lives. They drove us to church. They pulled our plows. They chased our meat animals. There was a direct economic benefit to mankind there. Now? There economic benefit is in making those of us who love them happy. And surely, that is of great value, but what value? Well that's hard to say!
    For me, I wouldn't pay $7000 for this horse or probably any horse at this time in my life. And I'm not saying that she isn't worth it, or the training put in it wasn't worth it. Just that doesn't really mean anything to me. I have NO interest in showing or doing anything along those levels. But...for somebody who was looking for that and wanting to compete, heck they might not want to pay any LESS even for an animal of equal talent or think they hadn't gotten the animal they wanted. There was an interesting study lately that took the same wine, put some in a fancy bottle with a big price and some in cheap bottle with inexpensive price. Taste testers preferred the expensive one! Go figure...

  51. That is one dandy mare ,and with her breeding and training , I would say she was well worth it . The problem that arises often with horse prices is "the quickie sale" More often than not if you have put the time in to a horse to get it the the level of training this mare is at , its a well bred , well put up good minded horse ,you will get your money. Not in the first 5 minutes the ad is up , but in time . The ones that are trying to make a quick sale or running to auction take the risk of taking far less . Set a reasonable appropriate price , advertise on a reputable site ( I don't believe in free sites ,frankly if you don't have ,what 15 bucks to promote your horse...) and take your time .

  52. And more...(because I can't seem to write short, sorry!)...

    I got my horse for $500. She is old, had an injury (bowed tendon) and we've been working through some issues. But I think she is great and she has been just what I wanted. I guess she was a "rescue" although I didn't think of it like that. She was what I wanted. I had a bit more money I could have spent but $500 was all it took. Fine, save the rest for feed. And btw, this was a highly trained horse at one point that would have gone for $10,000 plus at one point in her career. But that was then.
    Really, in the end, who cares how much people pay for their horses much they spend on a monthly basis caring for them. For instance, I have pasture with a shelter, access to affordable hay and I don't care about having a barn or even a trailer (I have miles and miles of pasture and fields to ride in from my place) so my expenses only run about $200 a month for my mare, 1 older horse and an air-fern pony. Most of that $200 goes toward buying extra senior grain and hay pellets for my old (and going on toothless) gelding. Do my horses all have fancy blankets and halters with their names? No, but they are fat and happy (and hairy) and bring me joy everyday when I go out to feed and give them a pat. Am I providing for them adequately? Perhaps not to some. But I think they would say so!

  53. Fern,
    I had to point her out to you. She's beautiful isn't she.

  54. I'm changing the subject, I need some {hugs}. Where I ride a horse was just put down this afternoon. He belonged to a little girl, age eight. He had broken his leg in a fall in his pasture. No one's fault, just a bad step on the soggy ground. I held the little girl while her horse was put down and we both sobbed. And this at the start of our show season. As I told her mother (not a horse person) horses are not like tires, interchangeable. It will take time to find the little girl the perfect fit, also give her time to mourn the loss of her friend and her dream.

  55. Kaede, hugs girl! how good it was though that you were there to help the girl through it. As much as her mom loves her , sometimes a "horsey " person who gets it is a great shoulder . hugs again

  56. As far as being on topic:

    I love that mare, from the picture she is very well put together and sounds like she was very thoughtfully brought along. She has the breeding, training, record and looks to make her well worth the $7000 asking price. In a good market, she would be priced at $15,000.

    What I do not understand is the debate about this. Horses are not cars, power bills, rent/mortgage, etc... The analogy of horses to cars makes no sense to me. Cars are for transportation, they are a necessity in most cases.

    However, the analogy does work in certain ways. Depending on what you are looking for, you look in a certain price range. For instance, my husband was looking for a car to get him back and forth to work, he paid $2500 for a used 1998 Ford Taurus that lasted for several years, was pretty ugly, and needed some work over the years. However, when we bought our truck, we spent $28,000, got what we wanted and it is still going strong after 10 years. My point in this ramble is that it is all relative. Someone looking for a horse to be competitive in most disciplines needs to spend some $$, someone wanting a good horse for regular riding doesn't need to spend so much. Market being what it is at any point in time is the factor on price and realizing that sometimes you come across a very good deal.

  57. Kaede,

    Very difficult for an 8 year old to handle, glad you were there to comfort her.

  58. Kaede,
    Big hugs you sweet girl. I'm glad that you were there for the horse and her. The world needs more people like you.

  59. To the earliest Anon:

    You need to be more careful with your wording. Even though I am not a professional in the horse business, I do consider myself to be a "real" horse person. I have been a re-rider since 1988 and have been heavily involved ever since. While our six figure income isn't derived from horses, we work just as hard in what we do as anyone who does and I am sure there are a number of people here who do just the same. You need to keep in mind that there are people who can and do spend that type of money on horses, even the middle class.

  60. I know this sounds gruesome but I asked the vet to cut the hair off of her horse's tail and save it.
    I'm going to have a bracelet made out of some of the hair and save the rest for now. Maybe a custom fly whisk when the hurt goes away.

  61. Kaede, not gruesome at all, how thoughtfull. that may just be a treasure that little girl holds on to forever,if not the memento certainly the memory of your very kind heart!

  62. For my last commentary, and yes, I am sure everyone will be relieved, LOL!

    I did find the topic on FWOTD to be somewhat bizarre. Let me explain why, sorry, but I have to do it:

    Here is a blogger who hasn't posted a topic on her blog for just under 10 months. There have been a few people who have kept that last topic going for a long time, including the victim of the most recent topic. The blogger made a few random comments in all these many months, which includes a positive comment to the originator of THIS blog back in December. And now, the blogger creates this new topic WEEKS after the fact and with very little current evidence, and the blogger says this is why she has closed down the blog?

    You had presented yourself as someone different, and yet you have just proved yourself to be the same as the rest of "the masses." You failed to see the point of what us "cronies" were trying to say.

    Comprehension Fail strikes again.

  63. DK-Appaloosas are more prone to uveitis, the leading cause of blindness in horses. They have made great strides in preventing or at least postponing blindness, but it has to be caught early and treated carefully. Flareups are recurrent.

  64. Oh, kaede:(
    How lucky the girl was that you were there, kaede, and how kindly perfect to give her something tangible to hold onto. Not even close to gruesome.
    Poor old soul, at least he was surrounded by the people who loved him.
    Let's hope we all are so lucky.
    I mean..
    never mind.

    14 Golden Canadian Hugs!

    I had a brilliant thought as I drove, about your fascinating, scary article, kaede. As much as I understand you were stating the extremes, I still can't help thinking the kitten stomper needed stomped. What drives people to do these things?
    I think it's partly driven by the need for drama, the need for "I'm real, I'm Here!" from SOMEone.

    And yet, how else does the truth get told, except by these incredible machines we now type at? Used to be newspapers/radio/tv/movies. Now the drama is in your fingers, if you so wish to create it.
    It's all part of the "dreamer/drama crowd", in my befuddled opinion.
    I would never choose to be something I'm not, "irl".
    This iS Real, to me.

    CCC! ramble on, smarmy goddess!

  65. More rambling is needed from the smarmy goddess and the red head goddess.

  66. You know GoLightly, I thought the kitten stomper got what they deserved too. The very thought that a person so cruel could be giving me a blood transfusion makes me shudder. Isn't this where the angels of death come in?

    But what about our dear own Fugs? She is trying to set up a HFSE out out people she deems to be abusers. I don't want her or her ilk on my case. Take today, 15 hand, 18 year old saddlebred, came in at a canter hit a slick spot and bam, down he goes. A few hours later and the verdict is he can be saved maybe. It would take a $15,000.00 worth of surgery and long months of recuperation and most likely he would founder or get a terminal infection. I don't see putting the horse down as animal abuse, but I surely do believe that some of Fug's followers would. How crazy does one have to be to come after a person IRL? Not all that crazy I believe. Remember these are the same followers who like to describe in gory detail how they want to hurt others. Two of them came after a cute little girl because they didn't like her HAIR STYLE.
    When does blowing off steam become whipping up fanatics?

  67. Kaede, bless your heart for being there with the little girl who had to say goodbye to her beloved horse.
    When the time is right, I hope she finds a new friend to love.

    I like that idea of yours, a horsehair bracelet made of his hair- what a thoughtful keepsake. That's a poignant token of remembrance.


  68. Kaede,
    Did the kitten stomper get stomped? I could read after that and just skimmed through some parts.

    I'm angry at the kitten stomper and a part of me says she deserves it. Another part is equally disturbed at a person being stomped to death. I could never justify an-eye-for-an-eye style justice to myself.

  69. CCC,
    I agree with your 'comprehension fail' and that the post was really strange. The main problem lies in that no one was arguing that Dena was innocent so I don't understand were Wench is coming from. Secondly, that others, myself included, had a similar conversations on FWOTD about not inflicting abuse on Dena for her behaviour. It now seems as if Wench has done a complete turn around. She now thinks that it's ok to disagree with Fugs about breedism, but if you don't like Fugs abuse then there's something wrong with you. It seems a bit whacked to me.

  70. Holy cow Kaede that Human Flesh Search thing is truly frightening!
    (And btw, so sorry for the loss of that little girl's friend. Glad you were there for her!).
    While the kitten stomper was an evil act, I still think the reaction is more evil than the deed. For one thing, it was a video. Video's can lie, or least not tell the whole truth. How do we know the kitten wasn't terminally ill and the woman was "euthanizing" it to end it's misery? Or some other explanation? To think that a "mob justice" would prevail is just, well, frightening!
    As far as the horse pricing issue. One thing I realize I actually didn't point out which was a lot of the impetus of my whole comment - It seems only human nature to categorize things and draw lines in the sand and I always think it is only to our detriment. Personally, if you want to buy a $7000 horse and spend $1000 a month on it in board and what not and you can afford to do that and it makes you happy, more power to you! It is not mine to say that is silly, or ridiculous or "snobby" or make judgments on you and your financial resources. If that is what you want to do, then go for it! I really don't have a problem with it in the slightest and I don't think it makes you any more or any less of a "horse" person. Yet, on the other hand, just because somebody like me would pays $500 on a horse and spends $200 a month doesn't make me an evil, inappropriate horse owner either simply because my horses lead a less "glamorous" lifestyle. And just because that is all I do spend on my horses doesn't mean that my horses are in jeopardy of lack of funds to maintain them. (My husband and I would actually be considered high middle income although most of that seems to be sucked up by our kids, LOL!).
    It's very possible I will chose to spend more money on my "horse habit" at some time in the future. And that's not out of my financial reach, just not something I'm not willing to commit funds or time to at this point in my life.
    I think "rich horse owner" versus "poor backyard horse owner" is a stereotype that goes both ways and stereotypes have one thing always in common - for every person or scenario you can point to that prove the stereotype there are just that many (if not more) that disprove the theory. They just might not be on the radar so much simply because they ARE NOT a "glaring example of..."

  71. Bec: Thanks for clearing that up about apps and uveitis. And Kaede: *Great big hugs to you and the little girl who had to let go of her horse today*


  72. Kaede, I am so sorry. What a shocking thing to go through. For me, it never matters how often I say "they are animals and some things just happen" there is always a period of shock and self-doubt afterwards.

    I think your idea of a bracelet and a fly whisk are inspired. What a loving remembrance!

  73. I FORGOT!!!!!

    Huge Applause to PF and kestrel, from about a billion comments ago..

    kaede, I got the connection to Fubbs, I did, but...
    I finally realized I was paying NO attention to driving, so I lost that train of thought.
    Maybe it'll choo-choo back tonight:)

  74. Re the comments by FWOTD:
    Judge not lest ye be judged.
    Dena's guilt or innocence is not to be determined by me as I am not the jury of her peers.
    It hurts me not to be kind.
    IF you choose to read, you will find very few protesting her guilt, but rather many posters offering support. That is a huge difference. You cannot possibly determine her guilt or innocence over the freakin internet.
    And unless you are planning to travel and seek her out, it is highly unlikely you will ever know her IRL.
    So why the hating?
    Better to no comment than a stupid one.

    And BTW- the victim of the theft did not innocently find the tack for sale online, a friend pointed it out to her. It could very well be that pressured her to alert the authorities. It still remains possible the tack was taken in an insurance fraud scam.

    Not accusing or judging here, just taking a long, hard look at all sides from someone who has experience.

  75. fubby says:
    March 8, 2010 at 10:59 am

    I know it…I would like to have a business of retraining old broodmares under saddle, but you could never make it actually MAKE money…I’d just like some rich person to fund it out of the goodness of their heart, LOL!

    Thanks for making my day on so many levels fubby! You couldnt train a Basset Hound. Stick to being the self absorbed bitch you are its safer for the broodmares and society.

  76. bhm wrote: Personally, I'm equally interested in what constitute an effective response to animal abuse. I see doing things in an effective way is just as important as laying claims against an animal abuser.

    I started mulling this over in my mind after I read it and came up with a few loosely related thoughts in response.

    First of all, I think, one has to decide whether people abuse animals because they are evil (born that way) or do they abuse animals because those behaviours satisfy some need within themselves?

    Personally, I am completely unconvinced by the argument that anyone does anything bad just because they're evil. It's just not a good explanation. I could equally as informatively say they abuse animals because they are oogity-boogity. It's an explanation that serves only to let the person offering it feel superior.

    Stanley Milgram's experiments showed that most people will do bad things under the smallest amount of coercion. Trivial amounts of coercion. Does that mean they are evil? Milgram didn't think so; he felt that his experiments showed that humans have a strong tendency to obey orders. Being willing to obey orders is what keeps traffic flowing and cities working but unfortunately, it also leads people into doing bad things if given convincing orders to do so.

    So the question with animal abusers is whether it is possible to change their behaviour.

    Secondly, are there ways to change behaviour effectively? Sure! Prison isn't one of those ways, though. If prison were effective at changing behaviour, the word "recidivism" would not exist.

    One institution that is effective at changing behaviour is gangs. They take children, adolescents, young adults and turn them into gangsters who are willing to trade their own health and freedom to further the goals of the gang.

    How do gangs do it? Simple: they offer love, help, respect, solidarity to kids who are not getting those needs met from more socially acceptable means. The gang becomes a surrogate family and the kids who are recruited repay it with fanatic loyalty.

    Once they have that loyalty, they train the kids to perform various behaviours, many of them quite complicated. They turn them into drug runners, dealers, pimps, fighters.

    When I put those thoughts together, I wonder if the same principles gangs use to recruit and hold members could be turned to something good. What if the purpose of the gang was to rescue and rehabilitate dogs, for instance? Teaching someone how to train a dog is no more difficult than teaching them how to recruit and turn a prostitute.

  77. About horse prices - I'm relatively new to the horse world. My current horse is a 15-yo, 16hh, barn sour, good-natured Tennessee Walking Horse. I have him on a 1/2 lease because his owner doesn't work with him enough (not entirely her fault, long story). Much as I like him and as far as he and I have come together, if she offered to just GIVE him to me, I wouldn't accept. I figured out what I need in a horse: not barn sour, smooth gait, relaxed attitude, sound mind, trail-ready, doesn't spook at new things, older is fine. My guy spooks, is barn sour, and goddess help you if you try to take him out on the trail by himself. But he's a sweetheart, has a good attitude, and the most wonderful smooth gaits. Even his trot and canter are smooth.

    I started looking at local prices out of curiosity and realized that $5K is a realistic budget. I might get lucky and find "my horse" for $500, but that's not realistic, even in the current market.

  78. From yet another anon to the first anon:
    The initial cost of a horse is NOTHING compared to the ongoing outlay of cash to keep it, whether you spend $200, $2,000 or $20,000.
    Ask my husband.

  79. LOL, my husband says the same thing. He figured it out for me one day, we spend $5000 a year for our first horse, the second horse I work the board off but she's the one I show so she's probably about the same.

  80. Nomally I avoid Fugly althogether , or if I stopp by it is just to roll my eyes at her more juvenile attacks on strangers with her "I am the greatest" holier than thou attitude. But I stopped by today, and holy crap. Not to say the Fugs is doing herself any favors in how she addresses it , but I too would have to ask ,What the bloody hell is that dizzy twit doing to that horse???? Longeing? nope . Parrelli used to use some common sense practices , while I don't agree with all "NH people " It certainly wasn't the flustercluck I just watched!

  81. I don't enjoy seeing lots of obscene words in an essay. It makes me think that you need to sit down for an SAT vocab review. An occasional obscene word adds a jolt of shock. When the obscene words start to dominate the essay they loose their power, and make me believe that you have an impoverished vocabulary or an expressive language disability.

  82. This Account Has Been Suspended

    I think Parelli nuked fubb with a carrot stick!

  83. I got the "This Account Has Been Suspended" notice when I checked fubbs as well. I wonder if an angry NHer reported her.

  84. Perhaps posting the Parelli Video has taught her she does not own anything she can find on the web..
    Or Wendy followed through and is suing her.

  85. To me it doesn't feel like the Parelli video did her in. She hasn't like them for as long as I've been reading her. My money would be that the cops or some agency went after her for encouraging stalking and vigilantism for behavior (selling a horse at auction) that she didn't like but was legal.

  86. You can back your way into the blog by going to and then clicking on any of the links.

  87. I was able to access FHOTD when I was checking comments on FWOTD, just clicked on the link there and it came up.

  88. The latest from miss "holier than thou"
    NOTE: I apologize for this morning’s technical difficulties. I still do not know WHY they happened, nor does my web host. I complained at 7 AM and my complaint was routed to the wrong department, which my web host admits to as their error. They fixed it very quickly when I called again. Linda Parelli does NOT have the power to take this blog down. If my web hosts were wimps, it would have gone down three years ago. In the event that they do ever get scared off of hosting the blog, there are many “free speech” web hosts including offshore ones to help me out. The blog is backed up in full daily and there will NEVER be ANY way to make it disappear forever.

    Wow! cocky much?
    Meglomania, caused by untreated syphilis right?

  89. fhotd says: I’m of your mindset. We just had mine at his first show and he was expected to stand – even when he was distracted, even when other horses whinnied to him. The rules always apply, no exceptions. If he did not stand still, he was corrected with the growl and a tug (not an elbow-flapping snap, snap, snap) on the halter and if he moved about more than an inch he ran into my elbow which reminded him he wasn’t supposed to be in that space. It was not violent and it was very effective.

    How long has this horse been in training? He cant stand still or stay on course? She will go far in the show world LOL

  90. Fugs have a man? Might calm the old mare down. I think she is a hoot.

  91. Good Grief! Why is everyone pissing and moaning at each other? That is a gorgeous mare and probably well worth her price, provided she is healthy and she looks it, BUT, a picture of her standing doesn't neccesarily show lameness, that's besides the point, a very pretty girl anyhow. Now as to only getting a shit horse for less? Hogwash! I payed $700 for my morgan/quarter mare and she is worth her weight in gold. I have not had to spend money in training to ride her. She is a been there done that horse and I've had her now for 8yrs. Now mind you, she isn't top rated show guality, but could probably be entered in 4H shows for games and such if I chose, but we trail ride when I get the chance. My point being, the horse pictured is a very nice looking horse, probably well worth the money, but there nice horses out there for less as well...........

  92. Oh and as to Fug's blog being down, more than likely she didn't pay her web hosting, LMAO!

  93. The mare sure looks like a nice mare for the price, and really worth checking out if you want to show. If you don't want to show she is probably not the horse for you. She has years of specialized training.

    As far as getting great horses cheap...of course it is possible. There's always someone who has fallen on circumstances that make it imperative to find their horse a good home, or a necessity to sell their horse for far less than it is worth. Look at how many people have lost their homes because the market has changed.

    People may not think of it, but bragging about robbing someone out of the years of training and work that make a good horse would be in extremely poor taste...

  94. "As far as getting great horses cheap...of course it is possible. There's always someone who has fallen on circumstances that make it imperative to find their horse a good home, or a necessity to sell their horse for far less than it is worth."

    Aunt knows a guy who got into the jumping world this way. Back in the day when the TB market out west went to the dogs, he had the money to snatch up all these wonderfully bred TBs for next to nothing. When it recovered, he had really nice horses who were trained and shown. Basically he hit the market right and got really lucky.