"Well Done BHM, Well Done."
Thanks Anon. for your kind words. It made my day. In reality I'm the facilitator and have limited input into the content. Most of the material is written by the members of this blog and it's they who should be congratulated. If I was to write this blog readers would be passing out from boredom.
I would like to encourage readers to post articles and direct me to a Fugly thread that you would like to see posted on this blog for discussion. I feel that this blog can also be educational so please submit your ideas. Ideas are always welcome and will be addressed in a respectful way. I changed the blog caption in hopes to better reflect the sentiment of the readership. We can thank a brilliant Anon for the caption suggestion.
This has been a great idea all along bhm, and you do need to take credit for that! I second the "well done"!
ReplyDeleteThird to the great job BHM!!
ReplyDeleteAnd here is the daily Fubbup....
fhotd says:
March 26, 2010 at 7:55 am
I will post your post so that people see your side of the story, but I would only remove names if an actual law enforcement entity, and not a rescue that MAY have an interest in keeping something quiet, tells me to.
I’m not accusing you of anything but I don’t know you, and that’s why I permit free discussion on this blog – it tends to bring out the truth. Your assertion in your e-mail to me that there is a federal case is baffling to me as I see no grounds for one. You have breach of contract, you have animal cruelty. Where is there a federal charge here?
Hearsay’s totally permitted on this blog – this is not a trial, we don’t have to go by the evidence rules here.
I’m not picking on you. I have the same rules for everything – free discussion. People say what they want, anyone who is accused has the right to respond.
Free discussion my azz... anyone that doesn't agree with her highness is banned.
Awww shucks, you guys.
ReplyDeleteYea for BHM!!!!
ReplyDeleteThis blog has attracted some very knowledgeable and reasonable people. Very refreshing!
Anon, I love the comment about hearsay being permitted and how evidence isn't important on her blog. Just goes to show you the caliber of the information that one gets on Fubby Horse of the Day! Her motto has been and continues to be piffle on the facts and the truth, it is way more fun to spread gossip, rumor and misinformation! Fubby Horse of the Day is the National Enquirer of the horse blog world. LOL!!!!!
fuglyhorseoftheday said...
ReplyDeleteYeah, I thought all my trolls were in jail right now, too! LOL...it's ok, I still have a delete icon here. :-)
Power hungry much? *snort*
I am the queen of the world I have a delete icon!! Today she is talking about people w/ internet addictions abusing their animals But of course her star-struck dumbass isnt an addiction just Farmville. LOL I guess when you farm your horse out to full care you can hit up Perezhilton and the rest of your trash sites huh Fubbs??
Cathy is much the same as Rush Limbaugh Glen or Beck, they are not in the business of providing education but in the business of selling commercial air time. The more controversy the more readers making comments. This shows HI she can produce readers. I don't read HI, but I doubt she'll ever take on one of their advertisers. If HI started selling horse shock collars that blog would be pulled post hast. If you want HI to dump Cathy call the advertisers and tell them you wont buy their product because Cathy writes for HI.
ReplyDeleteBHM, even if Cathy pulls FHotD, I want you to continue this blog. It gives good, well balanced information about finding an instructor (Thanks GD) or what drafter are like to own. Truly fair and balanced.
Uh, that was suppose to be Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck
ReplyDeleteKaede,
ReplyDeleteI think if we keep up with the topics and have an open discussion then you'll get good advice. One of the problems with FHOTD is the censorship of discussion. Experienced horse people will not hang around long in this type of environment. If you are going to strictly monitor your blog then you'd better be the top in your field and have something to say.
Did her blog start having hiccups after she went after the video of Linda P. working with that horse? Then, after the shock collar thing from another NH trainer? IF so, doesn't she know, whether she likes it or not, that those guys have tout?
ReplyDeleteRemember we were talking about shock collars and classical conditioning, horse does something "bad" and Zap? Well could someone be trying to train Cathy? Put up an inaccurate blog and blog troubles will follow. Do you think she will learn?
ReplyDeleteI really like the new slant on the blog! Education :-). I have a question I have been wondering about. How do you make sure you get the right tack for your horse (I have not ridden in 25 years and am thinking about getting back into it)? How do you fit a saddle? What bit do you use? Or when do you use a hackamore? My trust of sales people is very low sooooo...I would rather hear from you!
ReplyDeleteBHM you rock!
There are a number of books and online information for the beginner rider or the re-rider. I suggest reading up and look at forums etc. that comment on the topic. Having an experienced rider around is a good idea and then ask questions of everyone. The following are some articles that deal with the basic and should give you an understanding of terminology and concerns.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thetackguide.com/saddlefitting.html
http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_tack/bit_advice.htm
http://www.horses-and-horse-information.com/articles/1098advice.shtml
http://horses.about.com/od/bitsexplained/a/choosingabit.htm
What BHM said, and also I would recommend lessons, per GDhu. I would also recommend lessons in several different styles of riding before getting a horse, as you are going to have to make a decision about what style of riding you want to do and what size your horse will be before you get any tack.
ReplyDeleteLessons are on the top of my list. I really have my heart set on a nice, laid back horse (I have NO interest in showing). Up until I was 17, I rode english (mainly cross country and dabbled a bit in dressage) so that is what I hope to do again - but not as rigorous as when I was a teenager.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest obstacle at the moment is that I live in the New Orleans area and have not figured out a good horse evacuation plan. Some places offer evacuation as part of the overall package but it is daunting for me to think of someone else taking responsibility for my horse during an evacuation.
Signing on as myself for the first time here, WIHIAH :-)
Here is a blog all about saddle fitting. This woman repairs saddles.
ReplyDeleteWaves hi to WIHAH.
ReplyDeleteAlso, GL has a blog and she's a former riding instructor. I think she would not mind helping.
I've really been struggling lately with even wanting to help, honestly, youze guys. Work is just crazy busy, (thank heavens above)and my hands and wrists don't always obey my brain, and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteReading some of the stuff out there...
Just takes the wind out of the old sails.
Thanks, BHM. My ramblings have quieted lately. I blame all of the following blather on you:)
There is a serious lack of consensus, even within the various riding disciplines.
As BEC said, everything in horses seems to be debateable.
That's got to be terribly confusing for someone coming back to it, or just starting out in it. We need to gather a "basic horsemanship" prospectus, if you will. That's how I'd like our blogs to help. We all rely heavily on our readers for inspiration and ideas and their own unique knowledge and expertise.
But we have to stop the dismissive attitudes towards each other's chosen fields!
The trouble with arming a newbie with even a bit of knowledge, is that it seems to impart, in some, the idea that their one way of learning it, is the one way.
Absolute opinions are very dangerous, as they are usually wrong. Jumpers are inherently crippled, for example. (still grumbling about that...)
Since every type and temperament of horse/pony/mare/gelding/stallion is out there, it stands to reason that the One right way has to be plastic enough to be understood, and AGREED upon!!
Across the board.
That would help horses, a lot, I think.
I'm probably wrong though.
Happens a lot.
There's obviously a huge split, both in income and in intent, with horse ownership.
Re-read kestrels' comment, everyone, please. Truer words were never typed.
As kestrel, genius horse-lady extraordinaire, has also said, the largest sector needing sound sane horses to learn on is the same sector that keeps rescuing beasts that hurt them. Or over-horsed by their trainer. Or in a lesson program where not exactly broke horses are used.
Worst way in the WORLD to learn, is with fear.
I personally am thrilled with the advice SB was given by her trainer. Something I'd been muttering under my breath for a while.
I just wish...
Horses weren't such a total crap-shoot.
The best learning will be done on the back of one. That's the only place, really.
I think the forums are helpful, but could be more helpful, as they do get mired in pseudo-drama and sneering contests.
Horses, to all your fine horses.
Love the picture, BHM!
GL/Kestrel wrote: As kestrel, genius horse-lady extraordinaire, has also said, the largest sector needing sound sane horses to learn on is the same sector that keeps rescuing beasts that hurt them. Or over-horsed by their trainer. Or in a lesson program where not exactly broke horses are used. Worst way in the WORLD to learn, is with fear."
ReplyDeleteYes! Because unlearning bad habits gained through fear takes five times as long as learning good habits. I spent six years riding in fear--lesson program with some broke horses but a lot that weren't and a trainer who wanted to move you off the broke horses ASAP so you could help put miles on the unbroke or green-broke horses; bought too much horse on the advice of said former trainer.
Unlearning my bad habits is torture. Riding is so wrapped up in fear that every time I get on my new sane, sweet horse, it's a Herculean mental/emotional effort. I have triggers galore based on various ridiculous episodes that should have never happened to me. I love riding, but it's extremely hard to stay motivated when the fear is an ever-present companion.
Wow, and fubblie is down again. Do you suppose she credits her rescues she charges for their banners on her blog?
ReplyDeleteAnd does anyone know if she reduced her advertising rates since she doesn't get as many hits now?
If not, for shame Fubblie. You are not delivering the goods.
I would like the list of advertisers for Horse Illustrated if anyone has the time to look. I looked for the magazine in the store but no luck. I was going to buy it for the sole purpose to email all the companies that advertise and tell them as long as Cathy Atkinson writes for HI, I will not buy anything from them.
ReplyDeleteFugly said
ReplyDelete"So it is now my GREAT pleasure to announce that your calls and e-mails seem to have made a big difference – guess what happens on Tuesday?
Yep. Tony Meyers is FINALLY BEING TRIED FOR HIS CRIME! WOO HOO!"
What an idiot. Are you telling me that this paralegal has never heard of due justice? None of the calls, emails or letters resulted in the trial, you moron. The man was charged with a crime and he is being tried.
Jeez, someone pop the huge head on this nitwit.
GL - Big, HUGE, cheers! I admit, I always had a "I'll never go to a trainer" prejudice because I either found people who had spent years with a trainer couldn't ride, as in stay on the horse in a somewhat okay fashion, or the trainers were so "rigid" in their discipline that they seemed insane! But one thing this whole blogging thing has done for me is let me know there ARE sane trainers out there! So when are you going to move to the PacNW and start giving instructions, GL? And Johnnie Rotten too. I have this crazy urge to want to take lessons now but the only people I have gained any trust aren't anywhere near me. Wah-wah-wah...
ReplyDeleteYour words above GL are so RIGHT on! It seems like horses sometimes bring out the absolute worst in "cliquish" type behaviors in people. To me there are just some basic horse "sense" skills that are really, for the most part, pretty old school to me. And good riding, for the most part, all encompasses the same basic skills. Sometimes I think we make horses SO MUCH more complicated than they really are. And then of course, they do get complicated...
Thanks again, GL, for your inspired words.
Above Anon, I wish you hadn't said that. I just got a visual of a huge zit being popped, uuuuGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
ReplyDeleteSo many good points made again!
ReplyDeleteThe movement does have to start somewhere, why not here?
Yes, to Kes and GL. Two brilliant equestrians extraordinaire.
ReplyDeletehls,
That is wrong in so many ways. I had a similar experience. I wanted to ride horses as child and being pushed to ride difficult horses. There's a assumption amongst many instructor that you have to learn to ride difficult horses if you want to compete. In truth, you never have to come in contact with a difficult horse ever and still compete. There are sane easy going horses that you can show on and the horse should suit you not the other way around. If you want to go into complete in upper levels then you may have to deal with difficult horses. In retrospect, I should have been on a pony learning and then a quiet horse. I'm so sorry for your troubles and give yourself a big pat on the back for your fight to keep riding. Truly, impressive.
"The best learning is done on the back of one."
ReplyDeleteHas someone ever told Fubbly that?
I'd personally host GoL if she can hold a h/j flat/centered riding clinic in western Washington, Prairie Farmer. She has a heart of gold and believe me, she knows her stuff.
ReplyDeleteotoh, Where are you willing to haul to in western WA? I know a wonderful trainer on Vashon- another on Bainbridge.
WishIHadaHorsey, are you north of I-10? My daughter lives in NOLA, too, and I can ask her if she can help with an evac plan.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHLS, Aaaaamen my friend. I too know your pain of riding in fear. I am right there, too. I thank God that I have a very dear friend who is willing to help me if I can just get a good horse. (Heaven's, I've been screwed three times in a row now!)
ReplyDeleteAnd I pictured a big zit when they said Fug's head should be popped! Yikes! Remember that scene in animal house?
I love watching different disciplines (Again, I thank my friend who is willing to help me. She's opened my eyes up to a lot of different things) they're just fun to watch. I may just want to trail ride, but if it's horse, it's fun!
~DK
Not so much genius...ducking head...but I like the idea of setting down cross discipline rules of horsemanship a lOT! It's all a human on a horse FCS! Who said upper level horses are difficult?! Huh?! Training an upper level horse may be difficult, but once they're trained they should damn well know their job and do it. Or they wouldn't be in the upper levels...duh. Too many half assed trainers try to pawn off a badly trained horse on middle to advanced level riders by claiming that the only way to compete is on a jerk horse. Oh hell no. If I can't trust the horse to behave I'm sure not trusting it with my life in death defying situations. I've learned incredible things from well trained advanced horses. From sour nasty dirty horses...not so much, except what I want out of a horse and what I don't want. AFTER I learned what a great horse felt like, I learned how to rehabilitate the spoiled horses.
ReplyDeleterules as I sees 'em, no matter what discipline you ride.
Choose a horse that is physically and mentally suited to the job at hand.
Make sure the horse enjoys doing the job, and keep it fun for both of you.
Never choose a horse that is prone to inconsistent behavior unless you have the training skills to make the horse consistent. Network. Cross disciplines. Look for a trainer who loves teaching and has horses that enjoy teaching. Suit the trainer to your skill level. Learn basic horsemanship first, then specialize. Walk, trot and canter with complete control and a willing whoa FIRST. If the trainer doesn't have a horse that is capable of doing the basics cheerfully it doesn't bode well for advancement, because all advanced work is based on that foundation. Rokay...rant over... :)
Is it just me, or is this horse pictured the equine Fabio?
ReplyDeleteWow. All of these comments about riding in fear, not putting up with 'difficult' horses, etc...are really hitting home for me right now.
ReplyDeleteAs of April 11th, I'm allowing my 1/2 lease of what was supposedly a trail horse to lapse. Very long story behind why, but I could sum it all up as never knowing if he was just going to keep me on my toes, or scare the pee outta me.
Within an hour of going to my local network for advice about giving up the lease vs. paying for training, I was offered a ride on a sane, broke trail horse. That ride lead straight to connecting up with three sane, broke trail horses that I can take out practically whenever I want; and at least two more sane, broke trail horses that I can lease or buy if I wish.
Absolute proof that, even if your budget is tight, you can find a good horse to ride.
Hi Padraigin_WA, I live South of I-10 but am concerned about moving the horse to just the Northshore (any insight would help). If things go according to plan, I hope to be about a year from seriously looking to get a horse but evacuation is actually one of my biggest anxieties right now.
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing about rehab Darcy. Even if you successfully retrain the horse you never know when old dangerous behaviors are going to re-emerge, you constantly ride in defensive mode, and you can't progress when you can't trust the horse to give you an appropriate reaction to the stimuli of the aides. Here's to broke sane horses!
ReplyDeleteKestrel - thank you for repeating what several people I trust have told me. Every time I see my lease horse move out well for me or for someone else, I question my decision. Then someone (like you!) speaks up and reminds me that dangerous behaviors might go away, and they might not.
ReplyDeleteThis weekend I rode two horses that were trained right, so I could focus on what I was doing instead of on what they might do. As a so-so rider, I need that!
bhm-I really must insist you STOP putting pictures of beautiful...and hairy horses on this blog.
ReplyDeleteEverytime I click on the blog, my daughter catches sight of said beautiful...and hairy horses and promptly abscondes my laptop and drools all over it.
Ackkkk!
LOL-I am just kidding about stopping the pics. Not about my kiddo drooling all over the laptop though.
Ohhh...okay, so some of the drool is mine.
Darn it! Busted! My QH's are having hair envy issues though.;)
You're very welcome Darcy, and I am really pleased to hear you sticking to your guns on this one!
ReplyDeleteI'm frightened by the attitude of 'all it takes to fix a major problem is growl and back them up...' Yeah, right. Obviously the person saying that has never dealt with a real problem horse. What are they going to do when the 17 hand horse comes at them on it's hind legs boxing like a kangaroo?! Or rips a chunk out of them with it's teeth?! I've noticed that the people giving out the advice never seem to feel any responsibility when they get someone hurt.
I think that sane 'packers' deserve waaay more credit than they get. I don't care how fugly they are, if they get the job done safely they are worth their weight in gold. A lot of back yard breeding goes on because the show ring is placing the LAST things most people want out of a horse. Breed standards are there for a reason, and most breeds do have temperament standards that sadly are not being met.
BEC, I agree. She's being mean!
ReplyDeleteKestrel - the real frustration with my horse is that he doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but he has about a dozen spooky ones. And there's no knowing when one's going to be set off, or when the "jackpot" huge spook is going to happen. I hit my first jackpot on him three weeks ago (after eight months with him) and hit the ground so hard that my butt still hurts, three weeks later.
ReplyDeleteMaking a guess where I have no info: I'll bet horses like mine get passed around even more than the mean ones. He's such a sweetheart and seems so laid back that people are shocked to hear that he spooks. I think that's how his owner was suckered into buying him.
I hear you on showing and the wrong things being bred for. I was in the dog show world, and can't stand breeds that have become charicatures of themselves through over-emphasis on just one or two traits; or breeds where looks have taken precedence over temperament and soundness.
Darcy, you're right on on your observation. I've personally seen that one a lot. I think the most dangerous horses are sweethearts with a kink in their brains. It's actually easier to read a truly mean one. I just hate an inconsistent horse like that, because it's hard to see it coming and so I ride on the defensive all the time. And come off when I forget to!
ReplyDeleteA lot of dogs get passed around for the same reason. A rescued pitbull in Ga. for instance, "The dog was such a sweet dog when we got it from the shelter and I can't believe it killed my kid..." Whoever dumped the dog at the shelter should have done the right thing and put it down. The dog wound up there for a reason.
Thank you so much guys. You have NO IDEA of how much confidence I feel now just reading what you're saying. Inconsistent horses are something I've never even thought of. I've been so scared for so long, that they were, in my mind, all out to get me.
ReplyDeleteI love you guys!
~DK
Riders always underestimate what it takes to produce a sane horse. It's not always breeding although that helps a great deal. It takes hours of training by someone who knows what they are doing to produce a responsive yet calm horse. It takes the same amount of skill and time as it does to produce a dressage horse or a jumper.
ReplyDeleteDon't be embarrassed about feeling fear because every rider goes through it at some point. All it takes is one bad fall to create a problem that takes months or years to repair.
Could someone research and write an article on how riders can over come fear.
Oh, BHM, You can't really. You can work to recognize triggers, and you can learn to trust yourself, but truly, fear is there for a reason. Keeps us alive. Only time and trust can overcome it. A good horse.
ReplyDeleteA GoLightly type horse.
I'd never have learned ANYthing, without him. I had tons of fear/defence, and I was a good rider.
Even harder to learn, if you aren't already good, to overcome fear on a tough horse.
Today, I just happened to blog a little about fear, I have no IDEA why. Fern has blogged on fear too.
(blinks innocently.)
Thanks be to good trainers.
OH, check out my cousin's new web-site! Cobblestone
This woman couldn't type three words together. She's finally gotten someone to pout together a good site that shows her off.
Cousin can't type, but MAN, can she teach and train people and horses.
Referrals, I think, are key. Do not go blindly into that good horse night.
or something.
Just got a report of how my lease horse (the one I'm dropping) did on the weekly ride today: "Sam was his normal self today - snorting at the wind, the puddles, a jogger.... He also took Denise down into the ditch, he didn't jump, just walked down into it."
ReplyDeleteAmazingly, the person riding him wasn't fazed by any of this, and wants to ride him again. Then again, she's a problem-solver type, who's worked with difficult horses before. She might be just what he needs.
Fear is a funny thing , it can have foundation in solid rational issues or just take you out at the knees for no reason at all. The best antidote to fear I know is education, whether it be "book learning" or hands on trial and error, the more you know and understand the better able you are to cope with fears.Coaching by a strong leader and reputable coach/mentor can take you a long way . Another thing about fear is , talk about it . As cnj once said "splash around in it and make the lake a puddle" When you talk about your fears ,you often find others have faced the same types of thing and can share coping strategies
ReplyDeleteYes, everyone has fears but, there are different levels of fear. The fear which derives from a serious accident is a type of PTSD. It can ruin your relationship with horses and your future as a rider. The only thing that works are exercises that gradually desensitize the rider to the horse and riding. The more you ride were you feel safe and you can relax the better off you will be. It takes time and practice.
ReplyDeleteDK,
ReplyDeleteBig hugs.
OK. Here's a question: I bought a half-Arab mare three years ago. She's a beautiful horse, but she has issues that have greatly contributed to my fear level. My biggest issue with her is her inconsistency and her big spook-whirl combinations. (Everything is scary, and what will set her off changes moment by moment.)
ReplyDeleteAdd to that: Her breeding isn't outstanding. She has some ground manner issues that have recently escalated (charging me in the field, kicking, etc.), and she cannot be lunged because of previous bad handling. Oh, and her canter is terrible. She throws her head up when you ask for it, and you may or may not get it, and when you do, it may or may not be of the safe variety (as opposed to the running into fences variety).
In short, she's too much horse for me and my husband. We want to get rid of her, but I'm truly afraid that she will end up on a meat truck because the level of rider that can handle a horse like her isn't going to want a 14.2 hand half-Arab with so-so breeding and a mountain of issues related to poor handling. Those people are going to want a taller horse who's more suited to a variety of disciplines.
My question is this: in a situation like this, is it irresponsible or does it make me a bad person to be considering putting this mare down? In every other way, she's healthy; but I just can't see her having a good future, and I'm terrified of giving her to a more beginner/inexperienced person and having that person get hurt. (At this point, we're totally willing to give her away to a good home.)
hls-Last fall, I put a perfectly healthy, but lousy dispositioned mare to sleep. This was a horse I had raised and owned for 16 years. It was a difficult decision but considering the horse market and the kind of mare she was, I figured she would end up passed around, probably hurt someone and then end up on the meat truck.
ReplyDeleteThere is something that feels inherently wrong about putting a healthy horse to sleep. Our human, horseman nature wants to believe that we can fix them all. But I can honestly say, after feeling kind of bad about it for a little while-the thought of 'I should have tried harder' kept cropping up, now I am okay with it. In a guilty way, it's a relief not to have to wonder what to do with her anymore.
It's not as easy as one might think, making the decision to put a perfectly healthy horse down, even if they have a crappy disposition, been ruined by poor training or are just quite not sound.
I could give you a litany about all the possibilities you could try with your mare, but the fact is, there are a lot of nice horses out there that deserve the time and effort just as much as this horse and in the end probably won't cost as much by way of financial or emotional toll.
HLS
ReplyDelete"My question is this: in a situation like this, is it irresponsible or does it make me a bad person to be considering putting this mare down?"
No, not at all.
Not at ALL.
Like BEC said.
Big hugs, DK, from me Two.
(Stomps foot for added vehemence.)
OH, and I'm not saying that fear is something to ignore, youze guys. HP seemed to think so in the comments of my blog. I'm not Dismissing fear, at all.
I'm just saying, it's one of those deeep core emotions. As BHM said, time and trust and miles.
Fern is one of the bravest people I know, and she's unaware of how brave she is.
hls wrote: My question is this: in a situation like this, is it irresponsible or does it make me a bad person to be considering putting this mare down?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, that would be the responsible thing to do. You're not happy, in fact, you're afraid of her. She's not happy and I know this because happy horses do not charge, threaten to kick humans, spook-whirl at every possible excuse, etc.
She's not even what I would consider green broke if you cannot get a canter on the lead of your choice when you want it.
And I'm not convinced that sending her to a good trainer for four to six months would really help once she's back home again. She's taught you to be afraid of her and no matter how many checks to a pro trainer you write, your lizard brain is going to be saying "be very afraid." There's a pretty good chance that once you were taking care of her full time again, your fear would lead her right back to where you are right now.
And, as you note, her value as a 14.2 half-Arab mare is probably less than the cost of six months with a pro trainer.
As things are, you are going to get hurt, probably sooner rather than later because her issues are not confined to under saddle.
kestrel wrote: I've learned incredible things from well trained advanced horses. From sour nasty dirty horses...not so much, except what I want out of a horse and what I don't want. AFTER I learned what a great horse felt like, I learned how to rehabilitate the spoiled horses.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was teaching competition dog obedience, I let my students heel my two OTCH-pointed dogs (neither of them finished because a giant health disaster of my own intervened). The rules were that my students could only heel them off lead because so many people have this leash jerk reflex in them and I refused to allow my well trained dogs to be exposed to that.
The first time I tried it, it was with a student who was challenging me on whether it was worth teaching a dog attentive heeling. One 30 second jaunt around the ring with my trained dog changed her point of view instantly. She'd never had that sort of 100% attentive, joyous connection with her own dog but until she experienced it with my dog, she couldn't imagine the value of it.
If I were still instructing, my ideal situation would be to have 6-8 well trained dogs so that the very first course students took with me would be with my dogs. They'd learn how to train with dogs that gave them the right responses first.
Knowing where you want to go and how to get there is such an advantage in training.
Since riding involves so much muscle, my ideal as a horse riding instructor would be to be able to put each new student on a well broke horse on the longe line with a bareback pad every single day for two months. Get their core muscles conditioned and their sense of balance firmly established before expecting them to do anything about controlling the horse.
*Hugs my huggers back* Awww <3
ReplyDeleteMan, ever since you guys started talking about fear issues and what Grainne Dhu touched on about well trained vs yeah right above me. I just, you can't imagine the sunshine in my heart right now. The "I don't know..." has slowly turned into "I think I can." Yeah! I think I can! There are good horses out there and I don't have to be afraid anymore! I don't have to be afraid anymore!
I feel so... free!
Talking helps a great deal. Also, knowing that others have experienced the same thing.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of euthenasia is to save the horse from a painful death. I trip to the meat plant is a painful death. Add to this the possibility that people might be hurt.
HLS - Your #1 responsibility is to your own and your families safety.
ReplyDeleteBad canter, spooking, so-so breeding, those are things that for some might not be a problem. Charging and kicking? A big deal in my book. I wouldn't have a horse that did either of those (biting is a HUGE no-no for me too).
I would put her down. It's by far the most humane thing for her and the safest thing for you.
hls, tough call but if you cannot find a safe home (ie a home where she and any potewtial rider can also stay safe with her) it might in fact be kinder to put her down /A horse like that also runs a risk of being badly abused by an incompetent handler , it is obvious you care about her and wouldn't wantt to see that happen nor see someone get hurt so ,I think considering eutanasia isa very responsible option
ReplyDeleteI raise my hand in agreement. A dangerous horse often also has a hidden pain factor going on. They're in pain and miserable, and get mean as a result. Spooking can also be a sign of visual problems. I know of one mare that actually had an epileptic seizure disorder who almost killed a young girl...sometimes it's not going to be a problem that can be fixed.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to cry 'training fail' but most horses adapt and are fine no matter what level of training they receive. They figure out the general rules for cohabiting with humans, and do not waste energy and resources by being disagreeable. Some horses will never adapt no matter how well they are treated or how well they are trained.
To pass a dangerous animal down the line is inherently wrong as far as I'm concerned. Some well meaning person could wind up dead. The only responsible thing to do is to euthanize the animal.
There are a lot of good, hard working horses that are more than happy to be a family horse out there, so why not use your time and money wisely on one of those horses?!
What kestrel said.
ReplyDeleteas USUAL.
A older maiden mare I rode for years birthed a set of twins, one still-born. The other was crazy as a loon. Attacked, kick, bit, from the moment she came out. I saw the poor thing once, before they finally gave up on her at two. She was euthed.
Sullen, sour, sick expression, never seen it before, or thankfully since.
Kinder to let them leave the earth they hate.
Thanks everyone for the insightful comments. Several of you made excellent points about safety and capability. We are not capable of being safe while we handle this horse, and we are, ultimately, contributing to her problems.
ReplyDeleteYes, we make sure she has excellent forage and wonderful hoof care. We tried out three saddles before we found one that fit her properly. She gets the full round of vaccinations even though she rarely leaves the property. She gets regular grooming sessions, and there's often a treat in her feed bucket. We try to give her the best care we can afford, but excellent care isn't everything. If the handlers aren't capable of handling the horse in an appropriate manner for that horse's personality and needs, then there's a big piece of the puzzle missing.
Grainne Dhu wrote: "And I'm not convinced that sending her to a good trainer for four to six months would really help once she's back home again. She's taught you to be afraid of her and no matter how many checks to a pro trainer you write, your lizard brain is going to be saying "be very afraid." There's a pretty good chance that once you were taking care of her full time again, your fear would lead her right back to where you are right now."
Yes, yes, yes! I totally agree. My current trainer who is quite experienced and very level-headed and calm can work through this mare's histrionics. This makes me think that if we could find an experienced rider who wants this little shrimp of a mare, that would be the alternative to euthanasia; but I would never, never, never give this horse to a beginner or even an advanced beginner. I know what the outcome would be, and nobody would come out of the situation happy. Of course, finding that person who is experienced enough but who also wants a pony-sized Arab is the hard part.
Even my husband who is stupidly brave has come to a place of extreme wariness with this horse. I think it's her unpredictable nature that has been hardest for us, and as a result of that, I think we have, indeed, been trained to fear her. Fear doesn't tap into the rational part of one's brain, so no matter how many times someone has said "step into her when she's aggressive" or "growl at her" or "don't let the spooking/whirling stuff get to you," I can't rationalize the fear away, and being an equine, she senses that reality.
Kestrel, I wish I could say her personality was related to physical issues. That would make this so much easier. The truth is, though, that we've had several vets out to examine this mare from top to bottom. Each of them has said she's the picture of health. The only thing I can think of is that she had an excitable personality with some dominance which was exacerbated by really poor and practically abusive handling before I purchased her. I knew she had some issues when I bought her, but my trainer at the time assured me we could work through them. That was a fallacy, and I was a fool to buy into the idea.
We're still on the fence about euthanasia--our opinion changes from day to day because it's hard to contemplate putting down a perfectly healthy horse; and it breaks my heart to consider doing it. Yet, I would hate myself if she ended up on a meat truck or in a violent, abusive situation.
Thanks again for the insight everyone. We will be pondering these wise words carefully as we go forward.
http://schwung.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=genchat&action=display&thread=5897
ReplyDeleteKinda interesting that this post got 0 comments
Well, I guess to simplify the dilemma with the mare...there's a dangerous kink in her brain and she'll never be safe, no matter how well she's trained her nature will emerge. Brain isn't healthy. I wouldn't feel bad about it, because the decision has to be made sometime. Better a quick death for her than watching a friend or family member in the emergency room because of her. We'd love to be able to fix them all, but it's just not always possible. Aaand, some horses get abused because they are dangerous and not quite all there. Chicken and egg situation. I'm always suspicious of a horse that's had multiple 'abusive' homes.
ReplyDeleteanon 8:30-
ReplyDeleteit's interesting that Fugs posted on the MB after so long an absence.
Personally, I think of the 'human flesh engine' mentality when I see the way she behaves. I recently read an article in the NY Times on this.
Anon 8:30 thanks for showing this. My question is: what would contacting the news do at this point? Tony Meyers has been charged and was going to trial (I believe he pled out yesterday). Wouldn't this possibly taint a trial at this point? If the jury is tainted, mistrial, start all over again.
ReplyDeleteI thought contacting the media was a last resort when the legal system was not working. Contact them too much, and they will start to turn a deaf ear (IMHO).
Its her mob tactic. She gets em all riled up then she will take credit if a conviction is made. Im surprised she isnt saying she is the reason he pled guilty.
ReplyDeleteOn another note taking on Michael Gill might get her into a lawsuit LOL
Her blog is back up. :( And I can't help but notice the severe lack of comments she's received for the past few entries.
ReplyDeletehls wrote: My current trainer who is quite experienced and very level-headed and calm can work through this mare's histrionics. This makes me think that if we could find an experienced rider who wants this little shrimp of a mare, that would be the alternative to euthanasia; but I would never, never, never give this horse to a beginner or even an advanced beginner.
ReplyDeleteThere's a further problem if you do find a rider capable of dealing with her. I see this problem a fair bit with people who rescue dogs.
Experienced dog handler goes out to evaluate a dog's temperament. This person is confident with dogs, has smooth body language that dogs can read instantly and never makes a wrong move around a dog. As a result, the dog they are evaluating seems to be not so bad. Maybe a little flighty, maybe a little less than fully confident but nothing this experienced dog handler couldn't deal with.
The experienced dog handler doesn't realise or forgets, though, that this is not a dog that is going to end up living with them. This is a dog who will probably end up living with the average dog owning family.
If the experienced dog handler had known more about doing temperament evaluations, they would have made great effort to act like the average clueless person with dogs. They'd stare at the dog, they'd have jerky body language, they'd do unpredictable things, etc. And then they would see a dog that was a major fear aggressive spook! Not one that could ever work out with the average dog owning family.
hls, my concern about your mare would be that if you do find such an experienced rider, your mare may act beautifully for months. May make the experienced rider think her problems are now a thing of the past and hey, here's this advanced beginner kid who is looking for a cute Arab or half-Arab pony.
But what the experienced rider may forget is that your mare now knows something she will never forget: that she can scare some humans. Scaring a human will be on her list of options forever, just the same way that horses that have learned to flip always have flipping as an option. In times of stress, under pressure or extreme temptation, the horse will forever be likely to try flipping again.
GD,
ReplyDeleteExcellent point about dogs and horses.
Anon,
You are correct about contacting the media. Successful use of the media always involves appropriate use of the media. I can see it being used successfully to draw the publics attention to a new case or to push for new laws. This has to be orchestrated as part of well planned campaign.
You are right about the comments being down.
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GD-Usually I am a 100% in agreement with ya. You is one smart cookie.:)
ReplyDeleteBut many, many a horse with issues has been turned around and had it take permanently. I'm pretty darn sure it's not your intention to promote the 'rescue mentality'-once they have been abused, they can never be the same.
I don't think any of us know enough about hls' situation or her horse to determine how 'dangerous' this horse is. In another economy a more experienced rider may well have enjoyed taking this little horse and putting a year or two into her, turning her into a safe and sane mount. Unfortunately, we are still in an equine recession where experienced people still have their pick of more appealing prospects. I won't say better, because who knows what the little mare could accomplish if given an opportunity.
I guess my point is, is if horses cannot change, how is it that so many are successfully rehabbed/re-trained?
I could be speaking completely out of turn here, but I think what hls was getting at is that she has a horse that is completely unsuited for her or her husband and that they are having a hard time finding a more appropriate home for her. Euthanasia might be the only alternative.
BrownEyed Cowgirls wrote: GD-Usually I am a 100% in agreement with ya. You is one smart cookie.:)
ReplyDeleteWhat I like about this blog is that people can disagree respectfully without having to choose up sides and all that silly stuff.
But many, many a horse with issues has been turned around and had it take permanently. I'm pretty darn sure it's not your intention to promote the 'rescue mentality'-once they have been abused, they can never be the same.
I don't think any of us know enough about hls' situation or her horse to determine how 'dangerous' this horse is.
The things that I thought were red flags were: a) the mare's behaviour is escalating, b) it is no longer fear based (as most spooking is), c) hls's "stupidly brave" husband is also afraid of this mare and d) the mare's own physical characteristics.
There are some behaviour problems that you work through and they're not really a problem ever again. I'd put refusing to canter into that category. I suspect that an experienced rider could get her trained to canter properly and that would be the end of that problem.
There are behaviour problems that you can work with to the point where the animal is fine so long as they are with you or with an experienced handler but pair them with an inexperienced handler and the problem is likely to resurface. Territoriality is often such a problem. A horse that has learned that it is possible to scare some humans out of their territory tends to be one that tests every single human and every single opportunity forever afterwards.
If hls were having problems with this mare but the mare was fine with hls's husband, that would be less of a concern. As it is, what this tells me is that the mare has learned how to scare more than one human being. Her proficiency with those behaviours has increased and she's demonstrated that she's willing to experiment with them with more than one person.
A different example would be the (in)famous Herc. It's been reported that he flips from being cute to being aggressive in a heartbeat. To me, that suggests a horse who is always watching for the tiny lapses of attention the vast majority of people have when dealing with horses. We're human, it's inevitable that if someone calls out our name or we hear a truck out front or see something from the corner of our eye that we'll have a tiny lapse of attention on Herc. That he can flip from one state to another so quickly says to me that he's watching for those lapses of attention because he has learned that he's more likely to be successful if he surprises the human.
I believe that Herc will never truly be safe on the ground, even if he doesn't act out for months on end. Why? Because sooner or later, someone will be distracted and he'll pounce.
Fortunately Herc's very size will tend to keep people alert around him.
Unlike Herc, this mare is a 14.2 hand half-Arab. There aren't that many adults who want to ride a pony sized horse but there are lots of kids for whom this mare would be a good fit, size-wise. If she acts appropriately for months or even years (not sure how old she is), I think there would be a tendency for her hypothetical owner to forget just how experienced a handler she needs.
From the Fubby herself talking about Gill, "This is someone who clearly thought the rules did not apply to him. He swerved them time and again. What he could not swerve was human disgust and public scorn – very effective remedies against people like
ReplyDeletehim."
Seems like you are kind of following his path Fugs. Disgust and scorn.
Grainne Dhu I have an OTTB mare who I would never part with and I will put her down when I am too old to handle her. I made this decision when I got her because she is deeply bonded to me and I wouldnt trust her in anyone else's care.
ReplyDeleteYou are right on the money about Herc. I am waiting for the announcement they had to put him down but it wont be truthful it will be some excuse. And looks like it will be soon as they are shopping for a "foster" for him. I dont consider that saving a horse when you farm them out to get them off the feed bill. Shame on you both Katie and Cathy!!
Here is the latest update on FB about him and they are still saying Wendy ordered him to kill which is a lie. The Auction House Owner tagged him because he bit him.
Hercules will be staying one more month at Cedar Hill. We do need to find a foster/permanent home for him. Please email w/questions about fostering. He has "issues" from a history of abuse. If you are not familiar with his story it begins with a shock collar and ends w/ rescue from slaughter...he has his opinions about people, but we're making progress!
How can Fugs declare Herc's problems started with a shock collar when she has no clue what he went through in his lifetime? You know what? If I were Wendy, I'd definitely see about putting a stop to this woman's lies if, in fact, she never used a shock collar on him and if, in fact, she was his sole owner throughout his life.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that people can tell all kinds of lies about others and get away with it? I see it time and time again. People's reputations and lives are ruined based on lies.
Isn't it amazing they are trying to dump him now and yes, IMO, finding a "foster sucker" is just that...dumping the problem off on someone else.
What a sack of Sh*t Fugs is. I'm so disgusted with her that I hope someone sues the undies off her.
To state that a horse has issues due to abuse without a person knowing the horse before he was abussed, knowing that abuse did actually occur, and then seeing the horse after, just shows how ignorant on horses these people are. Just like kids, horses aren't born little angels, it is very possible for a horse to have issues without ever having been abused. I have personal experience with this as I own a horse like this. I have had him for over twenty years and he's a stinker! I never sold him because I knew he'd hurt someone that didn't know his every weird little quirk. He was never abused, he's just the way he is. He'll be with me until he dies.
ReplyDeleteThis is a reason I am leery of auctions. Sure, lots of good horses get dumped there because of financial situations, but I'm sure there are a good amount of horses that are there for a reason, not that they should have their life ended on a slaughter truck, but I don't really want to play the guessing game with it at home.
~AO
God bless you for sticking with your stinker, AO! It's good to see that not all people have the throw away mentality.
ReplyDelete~DK
DK,
ReplyDeleteYes, about the throw away mentality.
Anon,
How do they know that Herc was abused? I doubt they were there. I'd sue. Does Wendy know what they are saying about her?
Warmbloods and TB are bred for drive which often has an aggression component to it. Many of the champions and breeding stock have aggressive personality which makes them dangerous to be around. It's entirely possible that Herc was born this way and will always have that aspect of his personality. I see shock collars as last resort effort and it does not mean that the horse has been abused.
YHI here.... On the issue of aggressive personalities in horses, I have a daughter of COB that is a HORRIBLE BIATCH. She was born that way, and at 10 DAYS of age was jumping at people with mouth open trying to bit and kick if you got too near her milk supply. She was grabbed and tossed to the ground and laid on for that nonsense as a little baby. She is now 16.2 and very very aggressive towards other horses AND if a person acts afraid of her she will bluff them right out of her space with nasty looks and her ears back and sort of lunge at them. She has never actually hurt a person, but she is sure a bully if you let her be. If you are alpha and take control of her, she is quite easy to handle, but I am here to tell you she was BORN like that and without proper handling early on she would have been like Herc, a very dangerous horse. Her snarly personality CANNOT be attributed to abuse for heavens sake. But I am sure some idiot rescuer would say it was because she was show horse and was a bused or some such nonsense.
ReplyDeleteSome of the WB are very aggressive and are known to go off on their grooms. These horses were born aggressive and despite training will remain dangerous.
ReplyDeleteI am not a lawyer, but have had reason to learn about what can and can't be said online.
ReplyDeleteUnless you can prove that somebody said something knowing that it was a lie and with intent to do harm, there's nothing you can do about it. And it's very difficult to prove that sort of thing to the satisfaction of the criminal courts. Any conscientious judge will come down in favor of First Amendment rights. Now, if you want to sue in civil court, you can try, but that will also be a high, and expensive, bar.
On throwaway horses, if you can keep a horse or not also depends on the stabling situation of the horse. I don't know about AO situation, but I wouldn't be able to keep a horse with attitude problems. I have to keep my horse boarded and while the owner is wonderful, I also know he has to hire people to care for the horses. I sure as heck don't want to be the one responsible for a horse that savages someone.
ReplyDeleteThere are also tweens and their parents hanging out at the barn. I don't want it to be my horse that removes a friendly (but ignorant) hand, squeezed between the bars.
One old mare I use to ride like to pin you in her stall and lean on you. When I was younger and more agile I wouldn't have the difficulties dealing with that. Now I'm getting slow on my feet and stiff. If a horse pinned me and squished I would be in trouble. I wouldn't want someone else to take that mare, I wouldn't be able to keep her myself either.
AO here. My stinker is fine on the ground, not a kicker or a biter or bad to handle in between being taken to turn out and his stall. He is boarded and everyone loves him. He's just got other quirks when it comes to being ridden or taken out of his element by anyone that doesn't know him. But the rest of the horses can be taken to the specified area by the workers for the farrier or the vet, I have to be there for him.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to explain, I've had him for so long that I just know what situation he's going to be uncomfortable in and I'm ready for it. In all the years he's been boarded he's never attempted to hurt anyone, just wanted to be clear on that!
Wendy has a case should she choose to follow through. First and most important is that it is not illegal to sell a horse at auction or to send a horse through slaughter. What has ensued is called harassment. Wendy would win hands down.
ReplyDeleteI hope she does, anon 11:35, because for far too long, fubbs has had unchecked power and a person like her does not do well in a position of power. It's time for fubb's reign to end.
ReplyDeleteAO, your situation is just what I mean. You can keep your horse because you can be there for him. I couldn't be, sometimes just due to heavy traffic in my area. Sometimes due to heavy work/personal schedule. The workers must be able to take care of my horse safely. If I lived where I did when I was a kid, no problem. 10 acres of prime pasture and one large glen with a creek running through it, a beautiful barn in the pasture and the horses could run in and out of the barn at will. My old mares vices (liking to lean on people in her stall) could be managed. Just clean the stall when she was at the far end of the pasture. But I couldn't do that now. Where I board now the horses must be lead to the pasture and the stalls cleaned while the horses are in the stall. The mare in situation A, no problem, same horse in situation B, big problem.
ReplyDeleteI could not, in good conscious, sell my old mare, because I would not know how her new owners might end up having to stable her. If the new owners had to move, what would old mare's quarters be like? Who knows? Old mare reasonable safe in one situation, unsafe in a different one. Mare hadn't changed just her living quarters.
For me, it was better to put her down.
Does any one know if there's a better success rate for harassment cases than slander or libel cases?
ReplyDeleteBeen a busy week at college. I'll be searching for the AotM this weekend!
ReplyDeleteI'm sure harassment has much better success simply because it can have proof to back it up like phone messages, police records, etc. Slander and libel can be so hard to get together simply because the person being slammed simply cannot be unhappy with what is being said about them.
The kicker to all of this is that Wendy did not do anything illegal. Compare this to someone who has an abortion, something that some people find objectionable. To have someone blast one all over the papers for doing something that is legal would constitute libel and that person could be entitled to damages!
ReplyDeleteHere is my issue with rescues...
ReplyDeleteEspecially when they take on horses like Herc...
This is a horse that probably is (according to the comments made about him and repeated here) a dangerous horse. Yes, he can be nice. But then he flips. Those are the kind of horses that will hurt someone, long before something that acts poorly all of the time.
If rescues truely want to show people the kind of responsibility they are 'supposed' to have, then they need to start making a lot tougher decisions about the horses they rescue.
The fugly commentor mantra is breeding regulations. Okay, so if breeders need to be regulated, then rescues need to be regulated too.
No more emotional drama surrounding 'saving' this horse or that horse.
Rescues are welcome to take in or 'save' any horse they chose, but...
If they rescue a horse that ends up being permanently crippled and unrideable...it must be euthanized irregardless of how young or old it is. Twelve months is plenty of time to determine whether a horse is ever going to be sound or not. Hey, if we want to be kind, we can give them an additional 12 months to try to adopt the horse out. Failing that...buu-bye.
Horses over a certain age, say 20 or 22, and have been starved and/or require more than basic medical attention and/or are probably permanently crippled...must be euthanized immediately.
Any horse rescued over the age of 3 must go into training-within 6 months if they are sound or at the end of 12 months if they are not sound at the time of rescue.
Any horse deemed dangerous or unrideable must be euthanized. I would say that giving the horse 6 months to perhaps adjust to better treatment, but then they must go into training from 6-12 months. At the end of 12 months and they are not better..buuu-bye.
And for god's sakes...Stop with the heroic efforts...begging for money for broken legs, massive injury or stupidly expensive surgeries? Enough already! That money is better spent on actually saving something that has a more probable future.
Here is the way I look at it, Herc's owner never should have been 'outed'. She did not do anything illegal. The horse was not starved and it was obvious an attempt had been made to correct his lameness issue. The owner tried to sell him, tried to give him to a rescue and obviously did not feel the need to lay the horse to rest on her property. She is NOT the one who labeled the horse 'kill only'. His buyer did. Of course, fugs came up with the ridiculous assertation that the whole reason Herc was mean was because he had had a shock collar used on him. Pulled that one right out of her ass, I'd bet money on it.
Irregardless, the horse was purchased by a rescue and they didn't even have $500 to have a few x-rays run on him and they have been begging for money for the damn horse every since? How are they any more responsible than the previous owner? Now they want to farm him out?
Riiighhhttt!
How about they start showing some responsibility here and just put the horse down?
He's mean, he's lame and now they want to pawn him off on some poor sob to take care of for the next decade or so?
Nope-they 'rescued' him. They need to be responsible for their decision. He is not a suitable horse for the average owner and trying to place him is irresponsible and potentially dangerous.
BEC, bravo to your post. Very well said. I couldn't agree more. Ahhh but the saving of the horse accomplishes several things:
ReplyDeleteThe saviors get all the kudos and praise and pats on the back by other emotionally charged but lacking common sense people. The saviors thrive off that emotionally and they get a "wonderful" reputation for "saving" the horse.
The saviors then rake in the money and 99% of the time do NOT show proof the money they collected was actually spent on that horse. They lie about how much they take in many times. So, they get praise and extra cash which may or may not (in several cases in the past) spend the money on that horse.
They then "farm" the horse out as you say, walking away from any responsibility for that horse except to have the right to re-home the horse if the foster family can not or will not keep the horse any longer. They then get kudos for "doing the right thing" by the horse by finding him a new sucker to pay all his bills, just like the original foster family did. Oh yes, they can adopt out the horse for a fee, keeping the money while the foster family has already eaten all of the bills of said horse. The foster pays for the care/upkeep while the "rescue" gets the cash when the horse is adopted out.
Quite a little racket if you ask me. I won't donate one red cent to any rescue, knowing what I know about how MOST of them operate. They can kiss my behind.
Well...I'm not an attorney BUT my husband is one! As Fugly is smart enough to know (and to say), what she does would be hard as hell to litigate. Defamation cases are very hard to prove, and you still have to show damages - as in what she did caused financial damage to you, i.e. loss of business, whatever... In the case of Wendy & Hercules, even if what she did with the horse was "legal" simply posting about it from the perspective that you disagree STRONGLY with what she did would be hard to litigate. Freedom of speech is a strong mandate in this country, and we should be happy to have it even if it is sometimes abused. If lies were maliciously spread about what happened, well that's potentially a different matter.
ReplyDeleteHarassment is a whole different matter and, well, the person has to feel "threatened." A pattern of phone calls, emails, etc., from fugly followers might be enough to be considered harassment as far as granting a restraining order goes, but could it be connected to Fugly herself? Probably not. Who therefore would the restraining order be against? Legally it would be against the people make the threatening calls, emails, etc...Not the person "inciting" them to do it.
My husband explained it to me like this, think about the Republican party recently and fear-mongers like Glen Beck "riling" up the masses who then go and throw rocks through windows and threaten politicians (and their children!). Or a pastor that preaches against abortion and then somebody at the church goes and shoots an abortion clinic doctor. Can Glen Beck or the pastor be held liable - civilly or criminally - probably not unless you have a REALLY good REALLY creative attorney...and the bucketloads of money to pay him (or her). Mostly what you can do is make people freak out that they will be sued, the idea of which usually holds a lot more power than what may actually be able to be accomplished under the law. Fugly, however, has enough law background to know that as well.
I wonder if one reason for all the rescues is people are not looking at horses as livestock but as very large companion animals.
ReplyDeleteI see horses as livestock. If anyone wants to rescue a horse, they must be prepared to foot the entire bill. I believe in putting horses down. I don't believe in horse's "deserving" retirement. The horse isn't sitting around recounting it's former days of glory with other horses. Horse don't plan for the future or recount the past. You can train responses but that is not the same as planning for the future or remembering the past. If houses could really "connect the dots" how many of them would let a human get on one more than once?
I agree wholeheartedly with BEC. Lets stop the rescue drama and start putting horses down. a $3000.00 sound, sane, rideable horse vs a "free" rescue horse with an adoption fee of $1000.00 and $3000.00 worth of vet bills and $$1500.00 worth of groceries and hoof care,and maybe additional money in training.
Which horse is going to be more useful to the average rider? Not a competition rider, or a rider with gobs of experience but the average rider who has maybe 1 year of lessons and wants to ride in the fields and trails and maybe a few gymkhanas with their buddies? I know which one I would chose and which one I would recommend choosing: the $3000.00 horse.
Kaede - that's the thing I don't get. All the people who want horses treated as pets, and are upset when horses are treated as lifestock. Yet, many of those same people perfectly happy to accept tax breaks and gov't programs that are based on the designation of horses as livestock.
ReplyDelete