Thursday, January 7, 2010

Fugs vs YHI

This is for Anon who requested information on Fugs run in with YHI. It should be self explanatory.

Jul 15, 2009, 8:54pm, yellowhorsesinc wrote:
I know I know!
I thought you all would like to know where Fugs is. Many of you know we had a falling out but the REAL reason is that she had an affair with my husband. Well guess what? She has not posted a blog today because she left WA DC and stopped in Atlanta to visit my husband again. She is there for some SEX! As you can tell my relationship with him is over. But I also thought I would let you know that she is a lying thieving WHORE! I have fully nude photos of her that she sent him in December if any of you are interested. Her phone number is PM YHI if you are interested in her phone number. Not that it matters much since this is up all over the web, but I wanted to do the semi-classy thing and take down the number -- though I'm sure you can find it elsewhere. if you all would like to call her and tell her what you all think of a whore!
She also used to steal from me when we were friends and sell the stuff on Craiglist to support herself. If any of you would like to email me my email address is

Well what happened is that his cell phone called me on accident and I heard her talking in the background. Before you all give her the benefit of doubt she has a very screechy voice and has a lisp. I know her voice when I hear it. So I called her out on it and she said she is in TN visiting the people who have her mare Harmony boarded. I called the farm and they told me that Cathy and her boyfriend Mark just left. I said her boyfriend Mark? Were they driving a white Escalade? She said yes. That is MY FREAKING CAR!!! and my husband, or should I say ex husband.

I handled it with more class than you can imagine the first time. She told me she would leave him alone. Obviously she hasn't. I have had enough of her, so I am in the process of annihilating her publicly. She has pretty much screwed up my life so I am messing with hers.

Married men are the only kind Cat67 likes. She does not want to take care of one, just borrow a man from time to time. I once told her she was like those people who want to lease a horse and not be responsible for any of its care or the costs associated with their care.

The biggest problem for me really is that I cannot care for my horses alone financially. I guess I will have to sell most of them or just give them away. Truly that is the worst part of all of this....

Well we are not really married. So there are no legal complications. I truly cannot afford more than 3-4 horses on my own. I have 21. Most are lame broodies. You know what that means..... Death, as there are no homes out there for them

To be honest, taking her into my home and life was one of the worst decisions I have ever made in my life. I cannot seem to get her out of it either, she is like a wart or a cancer that just keeps coming back. Unfortunately this time she killed my relationship for good and will likely be the cause of several horses deaths and likely my old dog. I simply cannot care for all these animals alone and the old and infirm will be the first to go.

Well the first time he cheated I had about 49 head. I am down to 21. So yeah I did reduce drastically. I bred a few mares for next year. I have only bred less than half of my mares for 4 years now. I think I am down to 16 mares? I am not sure. Selling young stock has not been much of a challenge actually. Selling lame broodmares is completely impossible.

Jul 17, 2009, 10:41am, cat67 wrote:

My side? It includes paying for hay so that YHI's horses wouldn't starve, paying her heating oil bill so that she would not be in the cold, writing bad checks to keep her and Mark's accounts from bouncing, going behind on my own car payments so that I could continue to supply her for money which led to my car being repossessed, cashing checks for her because she cannot get a bank account at any bank in the U.S., paying for a blood panel to determine why her old palomino stallion was neglect-case thin last summer, bringing her buyers on NUMEROUS occasions when she wrote me desperate e-mails stating she had no hay money, throwing in FREE training to get HER horses sold, buying milk replacer so that HER orphan foal would not starve (I have pictures of him emaciated and nearly dead when she claimed she was handling it), and watching her TWICE turn down jobs that were offered to her (Renton Western Wear and Sleep Country).

She has not worked a day in three years. She sponges off the system, me, Mark, whatever she can sponge off of. She breeds more every year knowing she has no reliable place to live. Spring 2008 she was in mid foreclosure on 8711 SR Hwy 702 in Roy, WA (look it up in the recorder's office, Michelle A. Curtis) and still re-bred for all those cute foals you've seen posted this spring. Now she is on a property she hasn't paid rent on since, what is it, November? And is being evicted July 31.

I could go on and on forever but I don't need to. It will all come out in the wash and much of it is in publicly accessible records. Where are the theft charges on me if I am a thief? What a joke. I have a clean background check - just GOT checked for a job in March. She is being evicted at the end of July, and NEVER had the money to move to Georgia all this time that she was talking about it. When I came up from L.A., she had two properties in foreclosure and had hidden it all from me and portrayed herself as the wife of a wealthy real estate investor. She is neither a wife nor wealthy. She is merely another unemployed person who cannot take care of her horses, whereas I have two jobs and all that is completely verifiable.

If you want to know who is telling the truth, go over there. Ask to see her horses today. You take a look at how those horses look and ask yourself who is the liar and who is the hypocrite. You are equally welcome to make an appointment to see any of mine.

I have a contract, signed by her, showing clearly that $3800 off the cost of the VLC was for money she owed to me. I made the other payments as agreed and she turned over the papers at that time. $5000 for a halter broke 3 year old that did not pick up his feet because she'd only had him done a few times. My friends thought I was crazy. Maybe I was, but he's a good horse and I figured the money was already gone.

Have I slept with Mark? Sure. So has half of the PNW. You ought to see their Craigslist postings soliciting for threesomes. Hey, Shelly, probably shouldn't have used MY extra e-mail account to do all that. I have every bit of that saved.

By the way, nice bankruptcy filing that I pulled off the web. Your total horses are valued at what was it, $250? Noooo that's not committing fraud. Not at all!

Is the whole situation stupid? You bet. Should I have turned right around and gone back to L.A. when I saw what a train wreck Shelly was? Absolutely. But the horses are super high quality and I felt sorry for them and I got sucked into the whole situation. I will never regret that I got some of them away from her, and that they are now healthy and happy and have their feet trimmed and are dewormed on schedule, something they rarely experienced at her house. My friends have been trying to do an intervention and get me away from them for years but Shelly is the guilt queen and manages to make me feel guilty, Mark feel guilty, and the world feel guilty. If Shelly wanted me gone, all she had to do was STOP ASKING FOR MONEY AND HELP. She talks shit about me and lies about me (theft, what a joke - it's slander but there's no sense suing a person with zero assets), then comes begging for help and because of my relationship with Mark I have given her the help AND not outed her on the web for all of her BYB'ing crap, which was very, very stupid of me and I admit totally to being stupid about a man, but nothing else.

So yes, again, I definitely was stupid and I admit to being wrong in that I did not out her on the blog as I would have outed any other breeder I saw those conditions at.

I have better things to do with my life than have a war with Shelly so this will most likely be my only comment. I considered staying completely quiet but I do need to admit my own poor judgment in continuing to deal with her and in protecting her. I was 100% wrong.

By the way, the only negative phone calls I've received have been from Shelly herself.

Jul 17, 2009, 10:55am, cat67 wrote:
By the way, she caught him still seeing me lots of times.

#1 - saw his text message to me. mid-January 2008
#2 - August 2008, he came home smelling like a hot tub and she checked his phone and saw calls to me on lunch.
#3 - out to dinner on her birthday at the end of December 2008, she grabbed his phone to make a call and saw that the last call was to me.
#4 - a few weeks later, she found a four hour text messaging conversation on his phone that he had not deleted. She woke him up hitting him with the phone to tell him.

Those are just some of the times I know about. He is really bad about not deleting things from his phone. So if you had all of those experiences, and still were trying to come up with the money to follow the guy across the country (He moved in March and did not take her with him), well, what does that say?

By the way Shelly, you're welcome for my paying to turn the phone back on last fall when he left you wandering around a mall in Atlanta and the phone got shut off for nonpayment. I guess I should have left you lost in the mall, maybe you'd have stayed lost!

Jul 17, 2009, 10:55am, yellowhorsesinc wrote:
Well Cathy, I NEVER asked you for hay money and anything you and Mark cooked up was between you two. AND you just admitted that I paid you back off the purchase price of VLC. So where have I welched on you? As for not working it is Mark that has BEGGED me not to get a job, that he would take care of things. You are right I have not worked in 3 years because I HAD a man supporting me. Something you wanted so badly and took away from me out of jealousy.
I have never posted an ad for a threesome, that would have been something you and my ex boyfriend would have done with YOUR email account. Duh I don't have access to it! As far as I can tell YOU are the only person who has slept with Mark besides me. He does work from home and I watch him like a hawk.
Its nice to see you finally admit what a disgusting very *friendly* person you really are. I am glad to be rid of you and him.
I do want my buckskin mare I leased to you back so she can be euthanized.

Well I had to pack and move horses across the country not exactly something you can put in the car and drive off. As for the calls and texts, I only suspected at the time. I definitely know now. I only found the crotch shot photos and naked pictures of you in his phone.

Oh and BTW the reason I turned down the job at Renton Western Wear was that it would have netted me 200/week or less for 40 hours of employment after the cost of gas. I could not justify making that kind of money. I was never offered a position at Sleep Country

Jul 17, 2009, 10:53am, apocalypsepony wrote
Alrighty then. But, dude, Why they hell didn't you insist he END that relationship before you started banging him?

Jul 17, 2009, 11:04am, cat67 wrote:
He said they had an open relationship and things she said and e-mailed to me seemed to support that. After I found out that was not true, I was already emotionally involved with him and did not feel I could end it, and he didn't want to, so there you go. Every time I end it, he comes back begging me not to give up on him and telling me it will all work out.

Jul 17, 2009, 11:07am, yellowhorsesinc wrote:
There has NEVER been any question about an open relationship on my part. You are the one who wanted a big love arangement where we all lived in the same house and fucked the same guy. I said NO WAY in HELL and you even offered to PAY Me 2000 a month for the privilege.

You should be happy Cathy you have him all for yourself. You already KNOW I am done with him.
Please explain again how I am posting on your email account? How do I have the password, it is YOUR email account.

Jul 17, 2009, 11:08am, cat67 wrote:
Funny how I'd be soliciting for threesomes with naked pictures of YOU. It is not like we are the same size. Come on. Shall I share those with the world? Again, REALLY bad idea to use MY gmail for that.

Yes, you paid me back via the VLC. Thank you for admitting here that you owed me the money - that is not the tale you have told elsewhere.

And I will not give Buffy back to a home where she was crippled by her bad feet, forced to stand in mud and filth, not provided with a waterproof blanket until l bought her one, and much thinner. She is sound and trimmed and looks fabulous. You gave her to me and I have all the documentation to prove it. Please feel free to take me to court if you so desire.

Jul 17, 2009, 11:11am, yellowhorsesinc wrote:
Sorry I do not have access to your email account Cathy. Whoever the naked pictures are from is not me.....

Buffy will be coming back to be put to sleep. You are a huge advocate of that aren't you?

Jul 17, 2009, 11:15am, cat67 wrote:

Marlene Perdue who bought horses from you offered you a job at Sleep County while we were all standing in the kitchen. She said she could get you in there and you said no, I do not really want a job. You know, while we were standing in the kitchen of your ALREADY FORECLOSED house in Roy. You still did not want a job. Thinking Mark will provide is like relying that GOD will provide. Actually God is probably a more reliable source of funds.

You know why I never felt guilty even after I knew you weren't ok with it? Think back to a million incidents like the time I told you Pecos got cut up on the fence and asked you to come help me wash it, and you shrugged your shoulders and said "oh, he'll be fine." I went out and took care of it. Every time you did something like that, I hated you a little bit more. You and your laziness disgusts me. You don't care if your horses starve, you still won't get a job. You stay helpless deliberately to keep Mark guilty and with you. Enjoy that relationship and the power that position gives you.

Foreclosures, judgments, evictions. Look her up. You will be reading all day.

ul 17, 2009, 11:17am, cat67 wrote:
Well, considering part of your face is in one picture, it is obvious it was you. I gave you the password because it was linked to the news section/blog on your web site, so that you could update it yourself.

All right, I really am logging off now. This is silly. Please all do feel free to do your own research on both of us. See what you find.

Jul 17, 2009, 11:23am, yellowhorsesinc wrote
I seriously and with all honesty do not know at ALL what you are talking about. I have never in my life participated in a threesome. You and Mark may have been posting that but it weren't me.

Yes you only have closed bank accounts because of vet bills paid with hot checks, school loans unpaid, credit cards unpaid and car repossessions. You are so perfect after all.
I at least have had the decency to file bankruptcy and decide to move on with my life.

Jul 17, 2009, 11:49am, yellowhorsesinc wrote:
">>>You stay helpless deliberately to keep Mark guilty and with you. Enjoy that relationship and the power that position gives you.<<<

This was very telling in case you missed it.

You do have the power. And even she realises that she only has him by default. And I can only presume that that must stick in her craw and twist her something fierce."

I know this only too well and I am not the one who chose to not have me work. It was Mark's decision.

[quote author=yellowhorsesinc board=nonhorse thread=5014 post=84551 time=1247849887]I have had some huge ups and downs financially since 2006. But one thing I can say is my horses have NEVER been hungry not even one day. Not ever. I have a rhetorical question....
If Cat thinks my horse care is so horrible then why in the world has she placed SEVERAL rescue horses in my care? As well as boarded horses at my place? For free BTW.
I had:
Mister... the sorrel QH stallion that she brags about "rescuing" yet I paid for all of his care for 3 months while she collected funds via SAFE and I even found his new home for him. Yes she delivered him, but she got PAID for that too.....
Champ.... was a paid boarder that she left in our care and was told not to come back to my place in the middle of his month of board due to finding the naked photos of her on Mark's phone.
The Black TB Monday that was a Fugly Feature......
All are "rescues" that SHE brags about that I cared for and paid for their care in most of the instances, yet I am a TERRIBLE horse owner and too lazy to care for them? Huh....
Pecos had a scratch. It did not need medication or anything else YOU made the big deal about it Cat. I had already seen it and dismissed it as not needing anything.


  1. Yowza! And neither one seems to have figured out that that dude is scum?!

  2. What a nasty mess.

    And today's blog. Heaven forbid you can't spell, or you're suddenly some "uneducated, backwoods moron." Isn't stereoptying terribly unPC?

    I love how she has to have guest blogs now. Guess she's ran out of hate and has to borrow others to keep her steam up.

  3. Anonymous,
    If you want to write about today's blog you are welcome. I'll post it if you like.

  4. Wow, really? That would be an honor! Do I post my thoughts in here?

    (This is DK, btw. Thank you guys for making this blog.)

    *Still too lazy to sign in*

  5. "portrayed herself as the wife of a wealthy real estate investor."
    This statement of Cathy's is extremely telling , she thought she had found a meal ticket ,when she discovered it not to be so...
    Not classy ,not smart especially to say it aloud

  6. Wow. And she's dissing white trash?! Snork.
    Poor friend, that had to be a heartbreak of a deal.

  7. Anonymous,
    Yes, i can put you on as an author and you can write to your hearts content. I originally put this blog together as a place for others to post their articles. I'm finding it very difficult keeping up with it.

  8. Had to look at today's is proof that too much time on your hands is a bad thing.

    If I'm buying a horse, I really don't care if it's owner can spell. I know a lot of people who can spell but can't ride, and I know several people who can't spell but can ride and train horses. It seems that horses really don't care about their rider's literacy level.
    How many people really want or need an Olympic level horse?

  9. Hahaha-You know what is funny about the new post?

    Cathy has to acknowledge that she has new readers. Huh? Maybe cause the "old" readers no longer go there much or have quit commenting.

    Seems her readership turnover is similar to her friendship turnover???

  10. Did you notice that the guest blogger seemed to have some difficulty with spacing and proper punctuation?
    All while, raging about the idiocy and stupidity of others?
    Which basically means the same damn thing.
    Oh that felt good.
    Cast not that first stone ladies(Fugs and forthefutureofthebread) it has an annoying tendency to come back and thwack you GOOD!

    Misreference and speeling were

  11. For the record, I never ONCE called myself wealthy when speaking to Cathy. She knew I worked in a government office. Do wealthy people work as clerks for the government?
    I quit my job at the government to help my SO run a large horse show facility. I had no idea that it was sucking fumes as badly as it was or I would have never quit my job of 7 years. A feat that Cathy has never been able to accomplish, holding a job for 7 years...
    She showed up just as the business was gasping its last breaths.
    Did we have financial trouble after it died? You bet we did. We had put all the cash we had into the business and it just did not make it. It took my credit with it. It was already irretreviably messed up when we took it over and it just died on our watch.
    Does that make me a bad person? No, it makes me someone willing too take a risk. My former SO and I were not sucessful. It is difficult to start over but we did. THAT is the time that Cathy was talking about. It had nothing to do with being a bad person, it had to do with a business failure. Plain and simple. I had good enough credit before the busines failed to buy 100,000 in vehicles and a tractor, two homes, and a 3 million dollar business... Count me into the 85% of people whose small businesses fail every year. Yep that makes me a terrible person worthy of every bad thing that you could possibly do to me. Uh huh right Cathy.
    I have done the responsible thing and sold, and leased out most of my horses and I am planning on returning to school for some further training so I CAN get a job. Right now the countries unemployment rate is in double digits, people cannot get jobs anywhere, yet Cathy seems to want to call me a scum sucking welfare rat. HELLO I am on UNEMPLOYMENT not WELFARE, unemployment is sometrhing you EARN for working a job that takes taxes out of your check. It is something you pay into. I do recall Cathy double dipping California's unemployment system when she was working for cash and still collecting unemployment. But I am a bad person for not actually working while collecting unemployment insurance. Where is that eye roll emoticon?

    Yes BTW this is YHI. If any of you have questions email me at

  12. To add, FUGS seems to want to blame me for her lack of a checking account. Her last checking account went poof when she wrote a bad check to euthanize and dispose of her rescue mare "Clover". The bank paid the checks and then closed her account. Somehow she is trying to make THAT is my fault... I can even tell you the name of the bank if you are interested.....
    She wants to blame me for her car payments geting behind and her car being repoed.... but she managed to purchase a 3800.00 HORSE and not bring her missed payments up to date in the same timeframe. AGAIN she claimes it is MY FAULT she lost her vehicle....Hmmm how does that work? You can afford to purchase a 3800.00 horse but not make up 500 in two back car payments...

  13. One more thing, You ALL know if my horses were mistreated in any way Fugs would have piles of pictures of the incidents and in her rage would have posted them, and would have had animal control on me like white on rice. Afterall she was a regular fixture at my house. She has no incriminating photos. Animal control has no record of me. The allegations of horse abuse and neglect are simply not true. They are fabricated allegations by the person who believes that someone who mistreats a horse is the worst person in the world. She has to try to make me out as a bad person to justify her horrible behavior. You all know she would not hang around for YEARS if I was a horse abuser...You all know she would have reams of evidence. She has photos of one horse that was over due for a trim. Nothing more incriminating.

  14. bhm, maybe you should let YHI be a co-author on this blog? I think she can put a whole lot more on the plate than I can!


  15. Shelly, would you like to be co-author? You can post articles it you like.

  16. In addition, at the time of the post I checked YHI's website for photos. Her horses look quite healthy and well cared for. Hooves were up to date, the horses were groomed and in good condition. So, why would Fugs board a number of rescues there if the place was so bad? YHI's place is very nice looking. Who doesn't have mud at some point? If you live in a dry climate then fine, but the rest of us refer to it as "mud season" for a good reason.

    Also, YHI still has her place. Fugs says she was going to be evicted in a few days. So not true. This is typical of Fugs where she makes up things about people to cast them in a bad light and take the focus of her.

  17. Shelly,
    It's also good to hear from you, I was wondering how you were doing.

  18. Ive always thought Fugly has the worst case of Penis envy Ive ever seen. She wants to be or have everyone else's life. What a low class trash bitch.

  19. YHI, I am also glad to hear from you. Sounds like you are dealing with everything and moving forward. Good for you!

    I am pretty sure that most of us realize who the villain is in all of this, and it isn't you!

  20. No I do not want to co-author this blog. But Thanks for the offer. :-) In fact bringing up all this crap just reopened very painful memories for me. I am working hard at moving forward in my life and kicking garbage to the curb. Having Fugs move back to CA is the best thing that could have happened, well the only thing I can think of that would be better is if she got hit by a bus or something. I really have no interest in dwelling on her and her lack of morals and her lying, thieving and manipulating. Nothing good will come of stirring shit. I did learn one thing, she has a pathological hatred for middle aged women who don't have careers. She is hell bent on destroying me and Dean Solomon. Both of us are middle aged over weight women with horses and men who cared for us. HOW DARE WE? Yes Dean was/is a hoarder. Yes her lack of ability to say no to more horses caused her financial problems and ultimately her husband to run off with HER former best friend. Did any of you see how gleeful Fugs was that Dean's husband ran off with Deans former friend? Too bad that did not work out for Cathy. I am sure it goads her to no end that Jude got a man and she has had to turn back into the crazy middle aged single cat rescuer.
    I am in the process of moving to a warmer drier climate and I am down to 12 horses. I am still trying to lease out 5 and I will be down to 7. I am going to go to school for a certification in the medical field. It seems to be the safest place to secure a job right now.
    I am not one to dwell on the past. Cathy is a terrible person. She is hollow and mean spirited. Someone posted about her being a Psychopath. I read that information and I have to agree with the assessment. She has no empathy or feelings at all for people only animals. People in her life are only to be used by her for her own agenda. I have heard her say things like "blank person has a lot of money, that was a good contact". She used to post all the time that not only was she going to go to hell for her actions she was going to make sure she has a place in managment there. It is true. So very true.

  21. YHI, you have my sincere sympathy. It's a terrible thing to be used by someone you thought was a friend. Her horrendous behaviour seems to be catching up with her though, and through the same venue that she has used to try to destroy others...the internet.

  22. Hey, wait a minute, I have interviewed for and gotten the job of managing hell so Fugs is SOL. Maybe I will give her a job shoveling shit since she is so good at it!

  23. YHI I have also felt the wrath of the No-Class bitch. She cant take my life or love so I one-upped her. I am sorry she hurt you. You can get past it. I did even though it broke my heart that a complete stranger could attack me.

  24. YHI, from what I have seen of your website , and what you have had to say,You have had a rough go , but from what I saw your horses look lovely and well card for. Sorry you had such a rough go with Cathy ,she obviously saw you as a ticket to her success.Take heart in the fact that you have come through this with your dignity ,good luck in your education endeavors. Do keep in touch ,I realise this is a painful subject , but there are a great group of people here to chat with. They are hugely supportive and ever so kind

  25. YHI,
    I'm very sorry that this topic hurt you. It was my error in assuming that you were in a better place now and that this was firmly in the past. I think that your assessment of an anti-social disorder is either dead on the mark or close to it. Note how easily she creates a lie and manipulates to cover her culpability. Cathy's actions are all YHI's fault and do believe the she sees the world this way. Once again, my deepest apologizes.

  26. now that you've got me on a roll regarding personality disorders, check out
    The following are symptoms of npd:
    -believing that you're better than others
    -fantasizing about power and success
    -exaggeration of achievements and talents
    -believing you're special
    -failing to recognize other's emotions and feelings
    -expecting others to go along with your ideas
    -taking advantage of others
    -expressing disdain for those you feel are superior
    -being jealous of others
    -believing others are jealous of you
    -having trouble keeping healthy relationships
    -setting unrealistic goals
    -being easily hurt and rejected
    -having fragile self-esteem
    -appearing tough-minded or unemotional

  27. YHI, sorry for asking about something that's clearly still so painful. The whole mess just goes to show that the old New Yorker cartoon was right and on the internet no one knows that a blogger is a bitch.

    Good luck as you move forward. Owning your own business is a massive undertaking and risk. Scary stuff (prolly scarier than getting on a cold the 'size of the sears tower') and sometimes big risks don't always work out the way we expect them to.

  28. Anonymous,
    You are correct, starting your own business is very difficult. Kudos to YHI for starting such a large undertaking and doing right by her horse.

  29. why dredge this shit up again?

  30. Anonymous,
    It was being discussed and a reader asked for more information.

  31. Don't you think it hurts YHI to have all this dragged back up?

  32. Apparently not, since she's happily posting along here, eating up all the attention.

  33. Troll Anon.,
    This has made the rounds of numerous boards and continues to do so. It is in that light that I did not realize that I was hurting YHI. My intention was to defend her. If I had known I would have gone to PM. This has been asked an answered, so go back to reread or move on.

  34. Anonymous Troll said.."Apparently not, since she is happily posting along here, eating up all the attention"
    YHI Here,
    Really? You believe I am happy about this? What part of me telling everyone that this reopened very painful memories seems "happy" to you? Where am I eating up the attention?
    That whole post sounds very "Cathy" to me. Cathy are you posting anonymously here? If its not Cathy it is someone just as mean spirited as she is for sure.

  35. YHI- my heart went out to you from the very beginning, noone deserves the treatment you received, especially from such a low class POS. Hold you head high and know that we are rooting for you!!!
    Living well is the best revenge and you are on your way. Fugs, not so much.

  36. Here is the perfect man for fugs:

  37. Fugs says that the VLC is the size of the sears tower. I'd like to see her ride my 4yr old 18.2 1/2HH Oldenburg/TB gelding. I am 5'2" and 120lbs and broke him all by myself. She needs to stop being such a sissy about a 16.2HH horse.