Thursday, September 16, 2010

Time To...

Put up a news story since I'm gonna be really busy for a bit. Conformation Station should be the next issue out for the blog. So bear with me while I deal with life in the meantime. I'm going to link to the full story in the blog, but quote specific pieces that I think is worth discussing. Please read the article, it's a happy one. Plus it relates to horses, so there you go.


"Courageous Comet, a stakes-placed winner of moderate success in New York, left the racetrack in 2000 to begin a new career as sport horse. After initial training and use in fox hunting, Courageous Comet was sold to Becky Holder, an Olympic rider with a known reputation for turning ex-racehorses into top eventers. Courageous Comet excelled in his new career and helped Holder earn a spot on the U.S. team for the 2008 Beijing Olympics."

Here's the first of them. While great athletes can be found anywhere in the horse world, it takes luck and skill in order to find those who are able to do so. Becky is a well known rider who demonstrated the highest level of riding skill that most people in the world don't ever achieve. On top of that, she had a knack for taking somethng that most people don't know what to do with, and turning it into something that people can enjoy (even if it is just watching.)

That being said, do you think that this horse would have had the same fate if not left in her hands? What if he ended up with the average joe trainer who knows how to retrain race horses, but cannot make them top level competitors? Would he have eventually found his way to anywhere near than he is now?

""While some Thoroughbreds are raised specifically to be sport horses, others are finding greater success in their second careers as sport horses than they did in races. Through this award, we hope to decrease the number of unwanted horses in the U.S. by demonstrating their value in these non-racing disciplines.""

I'm not going to comment much on this one, but do you think this is true? Not just for TB's but for horses in general?
Anyways, hope that gives you something to mull over the weekend and then some with. I always enjoy reading your comments, even if I don't say much.

279 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Hahahaha GL.

    Unfortunately, that poor soul your neighbor has is not 'unwanted'. She wants him. She is just a complete psycho and has no business owning any living animal.

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  3. That one's kind of easy...the strength of mind that makes a horse a fierce competitor will backfire into the worst behavior possible if mishandled.
    Kind of like trying to turn a Border Collie puppy into a lap dog. You might find the rare individual that can handle it, but usually they eat the couch!

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  4. OMG, on her blog today she is talking about `fugly' and how she knows all about conformation, including post hocks. I guess she is not counting instances of extreme barn blindness such as she has with BYC. Because if she really could look at a 2yr old and predict unsoundness, she would never have paid $5000 for him as a 3yr old.....

    lolasl

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  5. Umm, I don't believe Cathy _paid_ for BYC. He was given to her to wipe out a debt.

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  6. According to Cathy and YHI, only part of his payment was to wipe out the debt. Her total cash in, including debt repayment was $5000.

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  7. I wonder who she screwed to get the rest of the 5,000

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  8. Somebody needs to photoshop BYC into being a bay and fire it off to Fugly. Maybe then she would be able to visualize his faults. Plus, any of those horses that pack kids around, jump safely with a kid or get dressed up for Halloween are worth their weight in gold no matter how poorly conformed they are. Pretty counts, but pretty is as pretty does also.

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  9. Anon 3:46, don't make wishes I can proceed to execute poorly.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/DressageUnlimited/bbc.jpg

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  10. I've been thinking the same thing for quite a while, Anon 3:46

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  11. OMG please post this on the main page that is just screaming fugly!!!

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  12. OMG...That is too funny CS. Good Job!

    Any way to slim down the rider? Maybe fugly won't recognize her own horse. Wouldn't that be absolutely freaking hilarious?

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  13. Quote from fugly's recent post...

    "Poor conformation is often a primary contributing factor to unsoundness. I can pretty much look at a two year old and tell you if he’s going to wind up with navicular – so can a lot of people. There is a collection of factors that make it highly likely, when present – straight shoulder, upright pasterns. Likewise I can tell you who’ll be getting hock injections first – those horses with post legs behind."

    Well then fugly must have the worst freaking farrier around, because 90% of navicular is man-made due to piss-poor shoeing jobs.

    My brother is a superior farrier and has fixed tons of horses that were supposedly 'navicular' and deemed 'unsound' and every SINGLE case was caused by repeated crappy shoeing jobs.

    I wonder how fugly explains beautifully conformed horses that cannot stay sound and conformational wrecks that never take a lame step?

    She is such a moron!

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  14. BEC, we have a horse here , who is a perfect example of that ,Appy , NOT built to have navicular issues , but due to and injury and a poor farrier , we got it . First and only horse in this line to have any issues with unsoundness. Course , he doesn't have a heart like those special Appy's LOL

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  16. CinnamonSwirl, you did an excellent job altering that photo, and wow, when you take the bling out of the VLC, what a difference it makes. He's spectacularly unspectacular. Downhill. Stiff through the loin. Lack of appropriate muscle development. Coarse head. Unpleasant looking tail set. And undersized hooves for the size of the horse. Wow. Just wow.

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  17. hmm, isn't Cecile pretty post legged?

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  18. Do you think that Cathy would recognize him now?

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=14654633&id=727430441&ref=fbx_album

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  19. OT... has anyone seen Fugly's latest blog and noticed Anything wrong???

    LMAO!!!!
    I did.
    not wanting to pull anyone away, but I had to post on my blog what I thought of it.

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  20. OOO Brown Eyed Cowgirl did.. just seen that..

    HAHAHAHA... I got a real KICK out of THAT!

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  21. Make the rider skinny? Please, that's easy.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/DressageUnlimited/bbc-1.jpg

    My god, changing the color was harder and a larger pain.

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  22. CS: haha... I just cut the rider out. of mine (Anon 9:09) to see the pic...

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  23. Wow CS I should send you all my pics so you can make me thin too! (crap I guess its only in pictures)

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  24. Lol, fern. I'm actually not this terrible a 'shopper. I actually use it more as a drawing program more or less, but I can do basic manips.

    Anon 9:44, I noticed, but I was still tempted!

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  25. Weird. I actually like him better as a bay.

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  26. Ok, change the saddle and the reins (Cathy might recognize her own tack) get rid of the riders hair and hat.

    Then post it.

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  27. Oh, if anyone actually does do this, I'm taking bets. 1) Cathy won't post the photo or 2) will post it then delete it when she figures out who the horse is.

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  28. Awesome job on the photos CS and Anon.

    I'm still choked about her stupid conformation comments...and then I make myself even madder by reading the comments and looking at the pics people post of their horses.

    Apparently, there are a whole lot of people who really don't know what POST-LEGGED is, or downhill, or what an ugly neck is. Are horse people that freaking uneducated these days?

    And the feet on a lot of those horses! OMG...

    Horrible, horrible farrier work. No wonder so many horses aren't sound anymore.

    Why or why are so many horse owners letting a complete idiot make them feel guilty about their perfectly serviceable mounts?

    I just don't get it.

    Here's a kick in the pants....Babcock QH is belly up and everything has been seized for a bankruptcy sale.

    http://professionalauction.com/10BQH.htm

    Yea, the 'good' breeders will survive right?

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  29. If a horse does the job well, it's sure enough not in the least bit fugly. I really don't like people calling an honest horse derogatory names. It's disrespectful, and leads to poor riding, because then there's something to blame poor riding on. (The steep shoulder led to a rough ride so that's why I bounce...bs.)
    Fubb must do well at the race track since she can tell at a glance how good the horse is...hahaha! Her uneducated bias shows in her evaluations of what is good conformation.

    Horses have different builds for different jobs. A long sloped shoulder is not such a desirable trait in a mountain horse, for instance. You want a moderate slope, better for pulling hills. Many gaited horses are coon footed behind. The fault becomes an asset.

    Because of my own personal bias, I think the halter QH looks freaky, and WP peanut rollers look like beaten dogs, doing the shuffling slink.

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  30. BECowgirls... you nailed IT! Bad farrier work is more the cause of lameness in horses than conformation. I hate to say this, but it is true. I have picked up more lame horses with unbalanced, long toe, no heel in the past few years than I have picked up lame horses due to neglect.

    What I am running across more and more is these "natural trimmers" getting so called "certified" by other "natural trimmers". And what I am hearing is, 15 minutes. you spend 15 minutes per horse. And that's not an issue if you are good with the tools and a great eye. I know very very few farriers who can trim a horse with "issues" in 15 minutes. And I even tried the "natural trim" on a few clients, but all I ever ended up with was bruised heels, toes, and soles. I won't do it anymore.

    and a horse whose been lame and unbalanced for a period of time, I strongly suggest be adjusted by a Vet, not a "72 hour certified" equine chiropractor either.

    All this quicky certified stuff is ok when you are dealing with a basically healthy horse with good hooves. but that's 'rarely' the case with your novice horse owner. sorry, but it's true.

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  31. Emergency Liquidation..... HAHHAHAHAAHA
    Sorry... like it's a furniture store.
    never seen such a thing.

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  32. Link to liquidation
    Jeesh, I find that really sad.
    Must be me.
    So many horses, bred for a market that disappears. 30 weanlings?
    Babcock is a big name, isn't it? I remember that name.
    Shoot me for not knowing.

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  33. That is sad, 200 more horses on the market. Wow.

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  34. Re: Babcock. Trashadeous is included in this sale. Smart Chic Olena apparently is not. His fee for outside mares is $25k. I guess that keeps most people buying foals bred at the ranch, and he's 25 years old. His get have earned over $10 million, a tidy sum. I would love to happen upon a nice Babcock bred horse for a reasonable amount of money. Maybe this is my chance! I hope that they are getting current on taxes and not going under. I doubt they will have trouble finding buyers for these horses - that's the benefit of having well- bred, shown, known stock.

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  35. It never ceases to amaze me the stupidity that comes out of that woman's mouth but this statement is unreal:

    I can pretty much look at a two year old and tell you if he’s going to wind up with navicular

    If that were true, wouldn't people be clamoring for her services ....so they don't go through the pain of owning a horse for years and have it develop navicular and sitting back watching their beloved horse hurt

    http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G2743

    Perhaps someone should educate that witch!

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  36. I just have to say this...how on earth can people sit there and call their own horses "fugly". That is just so incredibly low class all the way around. Lots and lots and lots and lots (did I say lots) of horses have conformational faults or blemishes or markings that maybe make someone go "ewww" but who in their right mind, puts their own horse on a site for people to go your horse is fugly and if you really think that about your horse........she really is getting to the point of being plain ridiculous and her followers appear to be a bunch of sheep!

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  37. And why is ewe necked a conformational fault - 99% of the time it's a rider/training fault.

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  38. My Farrier takes an hour and a half for hot shoes and I love every minute of it. He has done wonders for my TB :)

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  39. Anon 4:59-Individually they might be able to find buyers to pay a good price for most of these horses, but if you notice it's one bid for all of the horses. Either you buy the whole lot or none at all. I don't know of a whole lot of people interested in taking on 200 head of horses, I don't care how well they are bred.

    And to Anon 6:36-I'm with you. I find it really disturbing that these people are willing to put pictures of their horses on a website and put them down, themselves. ???? That is just ludicris to me. Besides, most of those horses are nice horses (besides the fact that they are apparently suitable for their owners). From some of the comments, I gather that most of these people really don't know that much about conformation. There is a big difference between a horse who is high in the hock (as most TB's are) and a post-hocked horse. Apples and oranges!

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  40. HCS-I'm not an 'Either/Or' person when it comes to shoes or barefoot. I have friends who do both and I have learned a tremendous amount from both of them. In the end, I think less is more...Go barefoot if you can, make sure you have a damn good farrier if you need iron. The real problem is that there are soooo many horse owners who do not even understand the simplest things about feet these days. Like the idiot comment one of the owners made about her horse...'It doesn't wear it's hooves evenly'. Since when is THAT a conformational fault? (slaps forehead) Holy Crap!

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  41. BEC. Im with you. My mare doesn't use shoes. But I am one that if your horse needs shoes, for goodness sake use them!

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  42. The other reason that I'm shaking my head about those people posting their horses on Fugly is that one or more of those same horses will end up for sale one day and Fugly will have ready-made ammo for her next assault on some poor deluded person who thought Fugly was her friend.

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  43. I think most of those "my horse is fugly" don't really think their horse is fugly. They just want to post a photo of their beloved horse and feel that they need to claim it to be fugly because, well, that is the "thing" to do on Cathy's blog. If you were to post this picture and say "Well my horse has great conformation." you'd be ripped to shreds.

    "Perfect" conformation depends on the breed and the use of the horse. This would be considered terrible conformation for a working cow horse.

    Look at the use of the horse and the needs of the rider before you start dissecting the conformation. Handsome is as handsome does.

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  44. word verf "crabi" Yep, that's me all right.

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  45. Oh, I forgot to add, lots of those horses seem "ribby" to me. Why aren't Cathy reader attacking each other (like a shark feeding frenzy)? Wouldn't they have been doing it if it was on anyone elses blog? how about the poor riding and the dangerous activities (jumping with no hunt cap, riding bareback with no hunt cap, ponying a pony with the lead rope trailing on the ground, improper foot wear (crocks!) junky or trashy background, rope or nylon halters, ill fitting halters, etc.

    How about that well informed commenter Greenjourney?


    Greenjourney says:
    September 19, 2010 at 2:35 am

    Holy wow, all those horses! One of the most often listed sires is named Trashedeous (Trash hideous?!), and his progeny are described as “Trash colt” and “Trash filly.” UGhhhhh, I guess maybe it’s appropriate, considering where those poor guys are going to end up.

    What a jerk to breed all those and dump them.

    I looked up Trashedeous, I'd rather breed to him than BYC.

    TRASHADEOUS H, PAINT, 1987
    Color: ch
    Height: sabino 14.2h

    APHA-00176429, AQHA-485603

    Splash White (sabino?)
    Registered APHA & AQHA
    NRHA Hall of Fame (1996)
    NRHA Futurity Reserve Champion
    NRHA Derby Champion
    NRHA Lazy E Champion
    NRHA Superstakes Champion
    Saddlesmith Champion
    1992 NRHA Open Champion
    NRHA Earnings $161,000

    Sire Of:
    A NRHA Top Stallion
    All-Time Stallion Offspring Lifetime Average NRHA Earnings

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  46. OMG-Kaede...That first horse...Coarse headed, ugly neck, straight shoulder, steep croup and post-hocked...Yep, somebody needs to drop that wreck off in my corral ASAP. Poor fugly thing.

    (Just kidding, in case someone didn't get the humor via the keyboard-LOL)

    I think you are right though about why people say some of the things they say about their horses on the fugly blog.

    A person almost has to wonder if fugly purposely posts some of the things she does to see if anyone will call her out on her BS? It's almost like a psychological test. I do believe Cathy Atkinson is the sort of person who would deliberately play mind games with people for her own sick amusement.

    So far, not one single person has called her out on her BS statement about predicting navicular though (shakes head in disgust). Sad, sad state of affairs for the horse world when someone like fugly gathers a following like she has. And these people complain about the Parelli kool-aid?

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  47. here is one theory of navicular I found
    "The second theory explains navicular disease as an ischemic or circulatory problem. The navicular bone has tiny blood vessels that supply it. Investigators have shown these vessels to be blocked in horses with navicular disease. To do this they took the navicular bones of affected horses and made razor thin slices. They then examined them under high power microscopes. By designing treatments which help restore circulation to the navicular bone, remarkable success has been achieved.

    A byproduct of the research dispelled some earlier concepts of navicular disease. It was believed that the lollipop shapes seen on x-rays of navicular bones were expanded canals for arteries. This research showed that these shapes were caused by the bone remodeling itself to allow the joint capsule to invaginate into the bone. "

    from http://www.novickdvm.com/navicula.htm

    Other talk about the size of the horse in relation to the feet, and improper hoof shape.

    I suspect its' a combination of causes, like so much else in the heath field. In humans poor nutrition can cause either obesity or inanition. You need to look at the whole situation before declaring one and only one thing to be the cause of a problem.

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  48. ooo nooo.. I'm not against barefoot at all, all mine are barefoot at this time, I actually suggest to many clients to pull shoes if not in active training or hard riding. I'm just against the NB push by unqualified people. I actually know a NB trimmer former farrier, he's good, keeps the hoof balanced, with no "mustang roll" (for the reason of hooves bruised everywhere).. so basically, he's doing a "trim", calls it NB but charges 50 bucks. lol.. he's no dummy.

    Kaede said...
    Why aren't Cathy readers attacking each other (like a shark feeding frenzy)?
    .... CRACK ME UP! HAHAHAHHA
    I like the picture with the old used tires and landscaping wood piece. niiiice, very safety orientated.

    I bet she's regretting that post subject... lol
    she's seeing who her followers are and the stock they have. Noooot saying anything bad about the horses, it's not their fault. Just I bet she had 'higher' expectations in herself... and thought her 'posse' had 'higher' class stock. *can we say reality check?

    and I think what most of you are trying to say ....
    "There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man."
    ~~ Winston Churchill

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  49. Hmmm.. reading through the post you would believe that NO ONE who follows her blog actually has a decently put together horse. So... who's buying all the wonderful conformationally perfect horses she is always pushing? Apparently there is a market for fuglies... her readership.

    Although I suspect there is a lot of "Look at my fugly horse." *waits for "He's not fugly, he's beautiful!" chorus of responses* One of the person's posts goes to her facebook page which is filled with people telling her how beautiful her horses are. I don't see any responses from her correcting them and explaining how her horses are in fact, fugly. Sort of like the skinny girl who whines about being fat so that all her friends can quickly reassure her of her skinny gorgeousness.

    Most of the posted "fuglies" don't look all that horrid to me. They look like average horses. Since when did average = f'ing ugly?? I mean.. really.

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  50. We have a horse with a truly hideous head. He is amazing from the ears back. Very appealing to the eye, athletic, well put together and nice (though he is a bay so no stunning color...LOL). However, this horse has the worst Roman nose we have ever seen. It is so pronounced that it startles you when you see him straight on and then he turns. But we would never in a million years call this horse fugly. We don't use that term. We use correct terms to point out conformational faults but ALSO look at each horse's strong points. In this guy's case, he is simply lovely outside of the head and since he allows a newbie to ride him and loves that teenage boy dearly, we are willing to overlook the unfortunate nose. :)

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  51. I want to know more about that polo pony. 10 grand for him? Cathy said 5 figures. I'm assuming she isn't counting numbers to the right of the decimal point. I'm also assuming she isn't listing the horses worth in, say, lira. (1.00 US dollar = 1,485.19 Italian lira)

    I looked for some low goal polo ponies for sale in the USA and none of them looked remotely like that paint. They looked like very fit TBs. Tucked up like greyhounds.

    Granted, the photo is a poor one, but what Cathy is saying just isn't matching the photo.

    I would have thought that all the conformational faults would have the said paint constantly lame. Isn't that what Cathy claims? Poor conformation = lameness?

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  52. I'm addressing the original question in the post.

    "That being said, do you think that this horse would have had the same fate if not left in her hands? What if he ended up with the average joe trainer who knows how to retrain race horses, but cannot make them top level competitors? Would he have eventually found his way to anywhere near than he is now?"

    No I don't. Would a better question be, would it have mattered? I'm not sure it would have, if and it is a BIG if, the horse had a good home and reasonable retraining. Are you looking for the best use of a certain horse or all horses? Are you looking for the best home for a horse? How are you going to define "best"?
    If Courageous Comet had ended up with a owner who cared for him beautifully but only ever did trail rides would it be a "tragedy"? The top flight human competitors will keep looking and trying until they find a horse that suits their needs. Then they stop looking for a bit. It like the old joke "Why are your keys always in the last place you looked for them? 'Cause you stop looking after you find them." Well what about all the other potential champions out there?

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  53. From what I understand, Cathy's polo expertise pretty much begins and ends with her sleeping with a married polo player. Its pretty easy for her to claim to know everything when its not exactly a mainstream sport. I know I sure couldn't claim to know the finer points beyond the fact I've sold a few TBs to polo players when they've finished racing. I do know that from the pictures and videos of her riding, there is no way in hell Cathy was a player or even excercised anything other than the most docile ponies.

    The reason I don't go on her blog and call her out on her lies and misinformation is because she edits and deletes any posts that don't agree with or further what she wants to have people believe. Why should I line her pockets with clicking on that site or however it is she gets paid? She has zero clue about conformation and the whole concept of form to function will forever be beyond her comprehension. I'm all about pretty is and pretty does, but when you are picking out a prospect, there are specific conformation traits that will lend themselves better to certain disciplines. She likes to say how much she loves Mr Prospector thoroughbreds. Considering that it can be difficult to find a modern bred TB without a drop of Mr P blood in them, its a pretty generic statement. What she doesn't realize is that the close up bred Mr P progeny (when he was still alive), were mostly notoriously unsound and crooked legged and many were quite mean. I know this having dealt with more than my share of them in the past. They were a perfect example of pretty is as pretty does though and that is why that bloodline remains so popular. Personally, I always preferred the Roberto line as those horses tended to have better bone and nicer minds.

    BTW very good job on the BYC photoshop! It sure does show his color is pretty much his main redeeming feature...


    lolasl

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  54. I actually wound up having to think my way through the whole 'great horse owned by someone who had no interest or finances for extensive showing' long ago.

    I bought a weedy, gawky malnourished young horse, fed him up and let him grow up...and he grew up gorgeous. The same people who had laughed at me for buying the horse were now offering money for him, and started chiding me that I wasn't doing him justice. Hogwash. That horse doesn't give a rat's patootie about a ribbon. Showing is hard work, and when they're used up they get dumped for another prospect. My horse has had a long and happy life, and we did show enough to prove our point!

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  55. Kestrel, I love your comments!!! Also, I really appreciate the link to the saddlebred for whoever put that up. I am so sick and tired of people fussing at our "thin" horses...the saddlebreds and saddlebred crosses...You are so so right....they DO NOT look like a halter bred moose of a qh...but they are not in bad shape at all. People have forgotten there is not one shape to a horse. Put a 4 yr old saddlebred against a 4 yr old halter bred qh and yep...the sb will LOOK thinner...hello, you don't put an italian greyhound next to a bull mastiff and go "which one is skinny"

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  56. Anon 3:46 thanks for the suggestion and CS thanks for the follow through on the "bay colt." That was truly priceless. I appreciate GL's linky superiority as well.

    He truly isn't as cute a bay as he is a buckskin, but we all know she wouldn't admit to it.

    No matter what Fugs says, she was owed money, BYC was payment in full for that debt. She was not owed $11,000.

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  57. gawd, kaede, I always feel dumber after I read your comments. I mean, you are brilliant, ya know that??

    The next thing you know, newbies will insist on perfect confo, and will end up with a horse built to stand still.
    Oh, wait, maybe that's a good thing..

    And I think it gets in the way of seeing a good horse for what he is.

    No such thing as perfect!
    Well, except for me of course.
    And CCC.
    and FV.
    and..
    BHM!

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  58. Hah, I just had the perfect illustration of 'what you see may not be the whole picture...!'

    Watched hubby take the halter off the yearling and it spooked. I'm thinkin' "maybe this colt is a bit of a fruit loop, he shouldn't be spooking like that, just taking the halter off, sheesh."." Hubby comes in and explains yearling had stepped on one of the dog's squeaky toys! colt actually just spooked a little...so now yearling is nice minded, hahaha!

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  59. Aww GL, no where nere perfect this gal, but I try awful hard!

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  60. On the original thought with this thread, NO, I don't think it takes an exceptional or high profile trainer to move a horse from one career to another & not only be successful but happy in their new life as well as bring joy to others. MOST of the mounts at our ranch fall into this category. We have several former racers who we retrain as lesson horses and therapy horses. We have had (bless her soul) a belgian who came to us from the Amish, bloody and scarred, who went on to be an amazing touch therapy horse. or my daughter's lovely Max who's portrait hangs in the hall at the race track under the "who's who" walk of fame yet ended up on the wrong end of a shotgun. He went on to live a lovely life as her show horse and she competed for rodeo queen on him. I just think in this case it was higher profile. THIS topic would be great for a blog. Feature each week a horse with an every day owner who is doing amazing things(even if "amazing" is just going from a racetrack horse to a child's mount or special needs rider kind of thing_. Just a happy upbeat sharing place instead of all the negativity you see so much.

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  61. Fuglys blog is down but she tweeted this...
    Grace made the news!

    http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20100919/NEWS/100919779/1063/NEWS&ParentProfile=1055

    Nowhere in the article did I see fubbs mentioned LOL She sure likes to ride the coat tails when someone else does the rescue.

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  62. I always wonder why the middle man is so ignored in 'success' stories?

    The horse did not go from the track to this rider and then she made him. He went from the track to a middle owner, who did the initial training and fox hunted on him and THEN he was sold to a top notch rider.

    And no, I am not trying to take anything away from the top end rider that turned the horse into a highly competitive horse, but 9 times out of 10 when you hear stories like this, there is always a middle person. You know, the one who put the time into putting a solid foundation on a nice horse.

    I think a top-notch rider can take pretty much any horse, that has a smidgen of talent/ability and turn them into successful competition horses. That's very often the key to an upper level competitive rider's success, they have an ability to bring out that 'extra' in the horses they ride. These riders are also good at spotting horses with talent. They are not going to waste their time on a horse they don't feel is talented enough to compete at the level they desire.

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  63. BEC...again your take is dead on. Just like people riding on the coattails of others "I rescued her from,...." Where did you get her? "Oh I adopted her after she had been at a rehab center for 8 mos but look at her now".....people tend to look at the end result...not the road it took get there....

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  64. Anonymous said...

    Fuglys blog is down but she tweeted this...
    Grace made the news!


    I noticed that, I attempted to reply to the foundered pony by one of her followers, trying to be 'kind' and sometimes that doesn't come easy for me ;) but keep thinking of that pony in such pain, when one day of work and $250 bucks would take that pain away.

    my reply: his stance is not due to a grade, your horse is in pain, he’s got classic laminitis stance
    he needs in this order… bute, rads, trim, shod, sugar free diet, cushioned stall… asap! today!
    don’t feel bad because you didn’t know, just get him fixed.
    didn’t mean to come across rude,, it’s late and really tired. and thought someone should have told you by now.
    that frustrates me more than anything, that someone hasn’t already informed you. cute pony though.
    and get a farrier, not a trimmer… I’m betting the farm the P3 is rotated and he will need heartbars & frog support pads, or homemade shoes, depending on the rotation and damage.

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  65. Fugly blog has been down for a couple of days. Too much to hope that it got pulled?

    In other not so great news....seems the `rescue' that got all their horses seized that Cathy featured have had the horses out of the frying pan into the fire.....The people handling the adoptions are just basically auctioning them away to anybody and chasing off legit rescues that are trying to adopt the horses and rehab them. It just breaks my heart....

    http://www.examiner.com/pet-rescue-in-national/hidden-meadows-equine-rescue-seized-horses-nothing-more-than-bid-numbers?sms_ss=facebook


    lolasl

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  66. I really can understand law enforcement being furious with the rescue mentality though. That's what created that disaster. Too many horses and too little donations means that huge numbers of horses are on thin ice at all times, and when they fail it's a huge sad expensive ugly mess to have to clean up. Not to mention the donated funds that are misapropriated...

    At least piece mealed out, one or two at a time, the horses might find permanant homes. They sure won't be going to slaughter any time soon since they are all skin and bones.

    I think the rescues that are claiming that they're the only ones on the planet that can rehab a horse are a little full of themselves. A horse that has been rehabbed by a person who wants to keep it will have a lot better chance at a lifelong home. I know I've taken on project horses and kept them, when if the horse had came in fat and shiny I may not have been so understanding and dedicated. I've also helped new owners rehab horses they've bought out of pity, and the process of getting healthy and sane bonds horse and rider for life. If the horse can not be saved the owners choose to put it down or keep it as a pasture ornament, instead of just sending it on to someone else like some rescues do. (Yeah, I have a couple of them...;)

    Now there's a thought...a rescue should not be able to take in more potentially useable horses than they have prospective homes for. Sanctuaries should have fugly's proverbial 'money on hand for 6 months' or no more new horses.

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  67. If it were not for a Cathy, this board full of sane women would not exist! Thanks, Cathy!

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hear Hear anon 9:30! This is a great group, you guys are awesome.

    ~Love DK

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  69. Kestral, I was thinking the same thing. While it sounds like they are not handling this the way the rescues would like, I think they are so frustrated that this was caused by a rescue that they want to horses out and in permanent homes at a low cost. I am not saying I agree with how they are handling it, it just sounds like they are overwhelmed and getting nothing but grief for this. I understand why their fuses would be short at this point. I hope someone offers to help and comes up with a solution rather than continue to bash them - but what fun is there in that?

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  70. Do you all remember the palomino stallion Cathy attacked a few blogs back? Contracts are negotiated, terms settled on, and he's being picked up on Sunday. He will be put under saddle by one of the lovely, sane women on this blog. So I guess not only is Cathy the reason we have all come together but her ripping of this stallion led someone to their new baby. He's not perfect but overall he's a nice horse for a young lady wanting a versatility gelding (terms were agreed upon and he will be gelded) ~Dev's Adv.

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=87565&id=1498633979&l=91a191bf0e

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  71. He is beautiful!! Makes the BYC look like well we know. Day 3 no fugly Im hoping a lawyer got ahold of her :)

    Word verv rutro LMAO

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  72. Rutro George....LMAO
    I heard a rumor...and it's solely that...concerning some of the pics that were posted by her readers. There were some questionable things in them and also apparently a serious copyright infringement on her part. I do know there are several people who have contacted lawyers and calls the FBI concerning the harassment her blog has incited have been made. She claims she's protected under the 1st amendment but you CANNOT go into a crowded movie theatre and yell "FIRE" which is what her blog has begun to do. Using the media to incite a mob mentality and then being able to link people's actions to her encouragement IS against the law.

    And yes...I think that she saw this stallion as ammo and the BYC might end up cannon fodder because of how nice he is. Her attacks on the owner who has proven horses on the ground and who can be found as a very successful eventer IS a threat to Cathy. She stands for everything Cathy claims to be yet is NOT doing. This woman trains her own horses, she breeds to raise horses for herself, she does not dump horses who do not fit her needs, it's obvious this stallion is well cared for as are her other horses (one of Cathy's minions called him "ribby" and I have looked and looked and looked at him but I don't see a rib anywhere...yes he has a couple of blemishes from the feed lot he was in 2 yrs ago but so do many other horses). Anyway, I think he's quite nice and so excited our friends are getting him. His new young mistress has needed him to fill the void she has felt since her TB died. ~D.A

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  73. The fugsters are now on FB whining about Cathy's sudden disappearance. They have started posting their BS and "oh this person should be shot" crap on FB. Unlike Cathy's blog however, FB has TOS and you can report people and they will be suspended. This is the downward spiral we have all been waiting for :)

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  74. Daaaaang IT! I just got on the ride!!!!
    grrrrr....
    nothing like... fasten your seatbelt...
    ooook... unfasten your seatbelt, and exit to the right.

    ReplyDelete
  75. The site is back up and I finally took at look at the people who posted their own horses. Maybe my desire to own a horse is too great but I did not really see anything I could call fugly. Maybe furry, maybe bad angle shots, but when they were doing something, they all looked pretty good to me.

    Sure, I am pie in the sky with envy for people who have horses but who the heck would post their horse and say it is fugly? Just call it horse envy on my part - I hope they realize how lucky they are to have one.

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  76. Coongrats on the palomino! I love that color. Yup, I'll admit it, a flashy color is kinda cool,... smirk... The horse sounds like a gem. The whole 'ribby thing started to make me crazy. If they couldn't find a fault they'd create one!
    Huh, looks like we may have to rename this blog, cuz it's way too fun to desert!

    ReplyDelete
  77. Oh. Never mind. Carry on. hahaha!

    ReplyDelete
  78. Okay, so I was flipping through fug's twitter page and came across this article by Angel Acres explaining their 'high' adoption fees...

    High Adoption Fees

    K-gotta see if this linkie thing works...

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  79. Yayyyy Me! I made a 'linkie'...GL would be soooo proud. LOL ;)

    K-What was I saying?

    Oh yea, I get irked that rescues get to excuse charging high adoption fees because they have invested time and money into the horses that they have rescued, but a horse OWNER who wants to sell a horse-that they have also put time and money into is told...Horses aren't worth much right now; You cannot expect to get your investment back out of a horse right now; or worse-someone posts their info on the fugly site and they are harassed and made fun of for pricing their horses too high or like the lady with the palomino did-offer it for free but are concientiously just trying to find a good home.

    I think a lot of people are more interested in feeling like they 'saved' something than they are in actually just obtaining a horse that suits their needs.

    Since I seem to have aquired someone who seems determined to 'enlighten' me on the error of my horseownership ways, I find myself even less inclined to feel any sympathy for the plight of the 'rescues'. That mentality is dripping over into private ownership and until someone else decides they are going to pony up funds for me to keep my horses...Quite frankly, what I do or don't do with and for my horses is MY business.

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  80. Congrats to Mendy on adopting the palomino. I think he's going to make a super cute gelding and his new person will be very happy with him. He is very flashy and has a kind eye. While I don't think he is `typey' as far as AQHA high level showing goes, he is put together much better than BYC as far as remaining sound. I bet you all have a lot of fun with this guy. The lady you got him from should be applauded for taking the time to save this horse from slaughter and now he is going to have his very own person to love. Still not getting why Cathy thought she should be burned at the stake....

    Also, I finally got a look at what people are posting as their own fugly horses. All I can say is shame on all of them. I feel sorry for their horses that serve them so well, to be thought of as fugly. While not perfect, my own horses are the most beautiful horses in the world to me, if only because of the happiness they bring me. Also, several of those people are showing off `fugly sins' in their pictures. I see bad fencing, no helmets, bad feet, no helmets, etc. I bet none of them get a feature on her blog as long as they keep doing her dirty work for her.

    Today she talks about animal care. I find it quite funny considering she pays other people to look after her horses and she just has indoor pets. Try getting up when its blowing snow and going to do chores, Cathy. Then you can preach about how to do chores and look after animals properly....


    lolasl

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  81. You can thank me later...

    fugly actually posted this...

    tbs_and_stangs says:
    SEPTEMBER 19, 2010 AT 3:50 AM
    Here’s the link to one of the fugly’s I’ve had…
    http://badpicture.shutterfly.com/pictures/9
    The pics a little blurry, but you can still see how he’s hip-high and the front shoulders are dropped. His back pasterns (both) are very straight…

    it's her own horse :D lol

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  82. Darn the luck tbs_and-stangs, the pic did not show up. Looks like part of the link is missing, both here and in fug's comments.

    ReplyDelete
  83. damnit... ok... I reposted on there, i doubt she even looks at the pictures...

    ReplyDelete
  84. and now it's posted... and nothing has been said...

    tbs_and_stangs says:
    SEPTEMBER 19, 2010 AT 3:50 AM
    Here’s the link to one of the fugly’s I’ve had…
    http://badpicture.shutterfly.com/pictures/9
    The pics a little blurry, but you can still see how he’s hip-high and the front shoulders are dropped. His back pasterns (both) are very straight…
    REPLY
    tbs_and_stangs says:
    SEPTEMBER 21, 2010 AT 11:59 PM
    I just realized that the link wasn’t working…
    here’s the main page with the picture on it (i made the website to show him, I don’t like linking to my private websites)
    http://badpicture.shutterfly.com/
    also http://badpicture.shutterfly.com/pictures/10 for a close up

    anyone who has guts want to make an account and comment about how he looks like BYC but a bay... see what she says? lol...

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  85. Mendy is very excited for her daughter. Her Max was a lovely kind gentle creature who got the raw end of the stick but lived his last few years happy and dearly loved by Caitlin. Though we have several horses at the ranch and Caitlin has a 3yr old that is her own, there is a big void left by Max. She had been checking out this TB in Ohio but then Convoy appeared on fugly's page and Caitlin was hooked. We are counting down the days til we cross the Mighty Mississippi into Illi and bring him back to MO.

    Now for my personal pet peeve of the day since fugster and the fugnuggets are back. Why on earth do we have to toss around the f-bomb like it's the word very?? There are so many other word choices to express yourself yet as you scroll through post after post and even in her subtitle today BAM. I am not going to say that I don't use it but usually it's when a horse has stepped on my foot or I let the trough overflow for 15 minutes or I drop an open container of $65 supplement all over the ground. I have copied her post today and am sending it into BOTH the editor in chief of HI along with YR. I cannot imagine they are going to condone such low class filth from one of their "employees" as she claims to be. Yes, animal abuse and neglect is a dirty ugly disgusting reality however tossing out "there's no _____ excuse for it" Let's use some other adjective please. Just a thought!!

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  86. I loooooove that palomino! Congrats you to awesome people for getting him! And as to his ribs? Oh please! He's like my little (Ha!) palomino mare, chubby chubby chubby! In fact, they're built a lot alike. :)

    ~DK

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  87. Anon@1:55
    Can't wait for the fun!
    Sincerely,
    Anon@3:46

    ReplyDelete
  88. LadyEvieGray said...
    or I let the trough overflow for 15 minutes


    ahahahhaa... thanks for reminding me. I swear I just did that.. and you reminded me to turn the water off... lol

    Personally, the f-bomb does not offend me "Neeeearly" as much as the complete misleading information she hammers out. That's offensive.

    The navicular deal really set me off, Now you will have a bunch of people going around stating navicular can be predicting... making them look dumb to others who know that is impossible..... and preaching and the constant attack on children and their parents is getting out of hand
    just my thoughts.

    ok... that picture ya'll posted on her blog... my face and ribs hurt from laughing!!!
    toooooo fuuuuuunny... ya'll crazy funny!

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  89. I am confused about the person who posted the "bay" that is BYC as fugly. Has that person owned BYC (I thought he only had 2 owners) or is that person as confused as I am?

    Interesting comments...

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  90. HorseCommonSense....amen!! I'm not saying her misinformation is not more offensive. And I guess if she's tossing the fugly word around it may lessen her credibility....and I so so so agree on the navicular thing....crazy....

    Also, she doesn't have children does she?? As a mom and a state certified teacher who was in the classroom for over 10 years and has been running our children's therapy and lesson program for 11 years along with our kids camp, the ragging on parenting is getting really, really, really old. There are bad parents and good parents...and there are parents who make a bad choice in ONE instance...I am very, very guilty of not enforcing helmets on my girls unless they are starting a new horse. I have reasons which we could all argue until we are blue in the face. But its my choice and at the ages of 20 and 15 yrs, they are capable of a voice as well. An helmets don't ALWAYS protect from injury. As my hubby lovingly says when I get hurt from a horse (even a minor boo boo): if you didn't mess with horses that wouldn't have happened. So does that mean ALL parents who let their children ride are neglectful?? some people argue that. Couldn't she stick to a topic she knows like ....ummmm...hold on......well.....maybe...no that's not appropriate...uh...let me get back to you

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  91. I don't think anyone was claiming to own him. We just wanted to make a point that the ONLY thing he had going for him was his color, and underneath it was the perfect gelding.

    To say the least, we were right.

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  92. Hopefully vets will set their little minds straight. 9+ years of professional school/college trumps 1-4 years HS.

    You have to watch Fugs, though. If somebody stole from a store and got away in Nikes, she'd be the person to bitch that we should boycott their shoes.

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  93. hahaha... topic she knows... gooood oooone lol
    Ah yes.. no doubt on the credibility factor.

    My thoughts on helmets, to each eaches own. If you are adamant, I back you on your choice to do so, I live life old school... novice kids, yea, I do recommend, but my side of the debate is this, a helmet didn't save Reeves.
    the end.
    it's an animal, and they can be unpredictable.
    if it's your facility, you require it, I happen to be there, no fuss, I oblige.

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  94. HorseCommon....my thoughts on helmets goes to the Reeves thing but also when I was 16 I was working at a trail operation and in exchange I got to ride as much as I wanted. I loved this huge monster Arabian draft cross named Steele. He was a little obstinate at times especially if you weren't paying attention. I took a guy riding (and i was watching him not the horse) Steele headed for the barn and I was not ready for the bolt. Nor the downed tree he sailed over. I came off and landed square on my arse end.I did not hit my head according to witnesses but was bleeding profusely from the back of it. The helmet strap had gotten caught on the horn as i flipped off and the strap busted as well as the helmet cracked under the pressure in the back as I fell, slicing my head open. That was the last time I personally wore a helmet. We require the students to wear them if they are riding a ranch mount but they're parents can sign a special waiver if they want to let them opt out. Since most of our western shows require cowboy hats, many of our kids parents have signed that. I agree its a choice and to each his own.

    LOLASL..I am hopping annoyed at the person on the fugster who was whining about a saddlebred qh cross owned by her mother and was talking about how ugly it was: HUGE saddlebred head, ugly long neck and giant QH rump. I own a saddlebred qh cross who was an accident that we bought from an auction years ago. He is hardly FUGLY and people ask me all the time "what is he?" He wins in the ring and for the last 3 yrs we have taken a ribbon at our local parade for best horse in show. He rides western, english, has done dressage, he allows me to rope off him and we have done cowboy mounted shooting. During all of this we are told "he's lovely, very elegant." What in the heck is wrong with these people???? GOODNESS

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  95. I love that Cathy wrote this a long time ago for envious types like yourselves. You spend waaaaaay too much time critisizing and talking about her. 15 yo much? Try to be educational and informational like she is, would help your blog.

    http://fuglyblog.com/?p=199

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  96. Woohoo, check it out, we have our very own troll! Snorking my drink on the last sentence...oh my.

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  97. *gigglesnorts with kestrel*

    I'm pretty sure none of her FAQ even applies anymore. She says she's a realist, when she doesn't even live in reality with the rest of us.

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  98. Anon 5:56, frankly, why do you care? You sound more like a 15 y.o. since you felt it necessay to come over here and made your inane remark.

    If you aren't going to contribute something worthwhile to the conversation, then you are just wasting everyone's time.

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  99. I wouldn't call that one a troll Kes, not near interesting enough!

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  100. You have no idea how happy I am that I found this blog! I have been so frustrated with fuglyblog for a long time. I sometimes thought I was the only one, judging by how often her blog is recommended on online forums (though I might just be on the wrong forums).

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  101. A thought crossed my mind CCC, (scary as that may be!).

    You're absolutely right, and we know...because we know the mistress of the art form, hahaha! Bless her for instigating interesting discussions, opening minds, and tickling our funny bones. Take a bow girl, you know who you are and so do we! And anon 5:56...it is soooo not you.

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  102. @ anon 5:56

    (in a 15 yr old fashion)

    and we care why? *walks away*

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  103. Actually, not a troll and quite a bit older than you think. I don't always love Fugly but at least she doesn't spend the entire time bashing your blog. I read both and try to find interesting info in both. Lately, you guys are just slamming. I haven't insulted any of your horses or your opinions only how you are using this forum to bash another who in your opinion is bashing others. Ever hear two wrongs . . .? Call me a troll but every single entry here is complaining about her blog, really, contribute to the conversation? I can bash her opinions which I don't always agree with but, wow! Passive agressive much? At least when I disagree, I post it and most times am respected for it.

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  104. lolasl, I was checking out the article you posted the address of, and this just completely stunned me...

    *copied and pasted*
    According to Beth Hill Ross, founder of New England Equine Rescues and who has volunteered to aid in the rescue operation has a horse at HMER that still belongs to NEER stated, "The Sheriffs Department is absolutely flabbergasted! So many horses and so many people; some are calling every hour on the hour. His private cell phone number was posted somewhere, and now people are calling that."*end quote*

    So, this article states that one rescue has a horse at another rescue that was busted for starved horses...? WTFF???!!!!!! And then they continue to rant about the deputy 'not doing background checks' when it would appear that NEER itself sure missed the boat! Delusional much?

    Sadly enough, the more that I investigate the rescue business, the more I'm dumbfounded...

    ReplyDelete
  105. our troll's name is Cat Jepsen (yay facebook :D )

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  106. Anon troll, the name of the blog is what again? kind of expect the focus to be a bit towards demystifying the Fugly rhetoric. But if you look at all the posts , there have been many intellectual discussions on a variety of topics. This latest is just ,us all astounded that she caould and would make such a ridiculous blanket statement regarding a troubleing conditon that has plaugued horse owners and vets for years

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  107. I'm new to both, only been reading hers for a month or so and find it refreshing (in the fact that real opinions are expressed). I was hoping for the same here and, although some are sticking to topic, all too many are not. Congrats on your sleuthing, I would be happy to put my name here, alas, I don't have an account with the servers that would allow it so I can only be anonymous. I have recently found several blogs that I enjoy reading. Yours started as such and I hope it will continue to be so. I don't think you should bash someone doing close to the same as you are and I don't think she should bash you. I can assure you I did not find this blog on fugly. Thanks for letting me know that you are NOT open to new people on here. I have nothing to hide, have a fugly or two, check facebook, you'll see. Not a troll, just prefer to read and interact than watch TV.

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  108. We have as much right to have this blog as fugs does to have hers. The difference here is that we don't attack, we don't place ourselves in some high and mighty position to call others out. (Seriously, who crowned her queen? She's the same as everyone else. I guess I don't get her audacity.) And we too have freedom of speech and the right to our opinion. The difference here is, that we won't bash you for coming here.

    I won't speak for everything, because that isn't my place, but please, come in and speak with us, we're not going to ostracize you because we don't agree with you.

    ~DK

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  109. Do'h, typo. I meant to say that I don't speak for everyone. Watching a movie and typing at the same time isn't a strong suit. LOL

    ~DK

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  110. I don't think the new ranterrs have even read the blog. The two before this? Yeah, about her and her idiocy. After that? Random things not really relating and bringing about intelligent discussion and thoughts. We actually had some people donate hair from their animals to the oil spill in the gulf, which was more a help than what Cathy has ever done for any animal. Frankly going to take pictures with them and taking credit is not rescuing. It's scamming, which she has done in the past.

    Please, have at the other articles in the blog. Trust me when I say they don't always run around Miss mini Ingrid Newkirk and her fantasy universe.

    I could very well write an entry on navicular, but what good does that do when they've already covered it? It's a moot point to say you can't tell by how a horse looks. That's like saying I can look at a GSD and tell if it's going to get hip dysplasia later in life. You can't tell until the symptoms emerge and you get the animal looked at.

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  111. Actually, I WAS attacked a little, no problem, I have big girl breeches and can handle it. Like I said, yes, I find opinions expressed freely refreshing - no one is the queen, not that I'm aware of but don't really care anyway. I will continue to read past blogs because I like to read fellow equestrian opinions, experiences, etc. I am open to all, but really? A troll? I'm not even sure what that means but doesn't sound like me, hell, maybe I am! I am older than 15 (by a lot, unfortunately) but promise to stay open and look forward to intelligent, informative and fun blogs

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  112. Not a troll, not a fugly "follower", not a rescuer, but I do "read" FHOTD and this blog as well. I agree with Anon 7:56. It does get old after a while reading the same remarks bashing Cathy and BYC. Honestly, wtf cares what she does with her horse? I would never breed anything to her stud and last time I looked no one was forcing me to. I have my own horses to worry about. /shrug.
    BTW good luck to the person adopting the palomino QH stud-soon-to-be-gelding. He looked rather cute to me, but again, I would never breed any mares to him. If Babcock QH can't sell their decently bred young stock...... just sayin'.

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  113. So I'm off topic. Waaaah.

    Anyways, I went to NEER's site and wowsa, they've rescued over 50 horses this year. Now I'm thinking, big deal. A huge organization and they've found homes for 50 head? And one of those was with another rescue? Heck, a couple of friends of mine have networked and found homes for 11 horses, and we didn't sell cute coffee cups, ask for donations, have a website...what were we not thinking! We should have been collecting cash!

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  114. LadyEvieGray said...

    Also, she doesn't have children does she?? As a mom and a state certified teacher who was in the classroom for over 10 years and has been running our children's therapy and lesson program for 11 years along with our kids camp, the ragging on parenting is getting really, really, really old.


    I don't think she does.
    That's a Great Accomplishment, I have always had Soooo much respect for people who can work with kids AND horses day in and day out! God Bless you Woman! :) You got the patience of a Saint! lol

    and that HELMET story... omg! goood Lord that sounds gruesome! I would say no one should ever give you grief :)

    on the other subject.. my 2 cents worth...
    attacking private unsuspecting people is out of line. attacking a person who "makes" themselves public is fair open game. kinda like famous people.. not saying she's famous or anything.

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  115. Unfortunately, too many rescues do just that . . . Spend money on fancy websites, sell bs and make waaaay too much money, hard to see the "not for profit" part of that.

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  116. Sorry , so many anonomous posters and I was too lazy to look up what time you posted . Here is the thing, the blog was started in part to refute FOTD , and has become a great place to share info and opininions .That said every now and again the holier than thou bent that fugly has irks a few of us and we get on a rant. It is what it is , but if you read ther whole blog you may just come to enjoy the company

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  117. Oh, and troll person? You will notice that when the fubb person gets bashed it is done by presenting facts that counter her usual argument of 'it's my blog and blah blah blah...' People learn from debate when it is presented with logic to back it up. This blog is not moderated, so I guess if you actually want to come up with some logic, I'll listen.

    And yes, I am childish enough to chortle when someone who attacks others, for lesser sins than her own, gets what they righteously deserve.

    Note the blog name? It's a review of another blog. When that blog presents correct information it is also noted in the comments here. Not my fault if that doesn't happen often...

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  118. The one that started the "ruckus" was me, just figured out how to put my name on the blog. I have read a couple more and will apologize for initial opinions. I will continue reading. I don't really care who says what about whom, just saw an awful lot in a couple posts - oh well, to each his own opinion. Seems like there are some well - meaning and intelligent individuals here much as on her site.

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  119. So, kestrel, that being said, can we lose the "troll" thing? I actually appreciate the lack of mediation.

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  120. Sorry, moderation - ipads make their own words when you typo

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  121. Cheerfully, because now that you've put a name on yourself you're not a troll!

    Fair warning though, I love a good debate. I also love this site because we frequently agree to disagree on some issues. Everyone gets to present their case, and also may change their position when they run across facts that warrant doing so, me included.

    Wecome!

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  122. Don't listen to Kestrel! She beats me when no one is looking!!

    ~DK Black and Blue

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  123. Can take a beating - three older brothers and now 4 horses if it ain't been broke, it ain't breakable! I promise to debate with the best of them and will try to have honest and interesting insights - horses I know - blogging? Not so much. Now to be able to load a pic. I hate that weird orange thing.

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  124. Dang, busted again. That'll teach me to leave their fingers intact! Bwahahaha DK!

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  125. As long as we are complaining about Rescues :) Phantom Meadows is 'At it Again' They are Advertising Our Horses, using Our Pictures and begging for donations to 'save' them. Two of the three they are advertising are already sold and I'd write another letter asking them to stop, but the last two didn't do any good. Wouldn't you think, as a Rescue, they could find their own horses to advertise without dragging a not-a-rescue into their less-than-stellar business?

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  126. Welcome cjepsen after you've waded through our random rants you'll find many intelligent horsepeople. And unlike our namesake FUBB (f'ed up beyond belief) We dont need to toot our horns. We just like to review the lastest crap Fubb spews upon her young followers. I just think anyone who gets paid to give advise should know what they are talking about, not comb Youtube or training books and use it to make sound like you do. I gave up on Fubb ever becoming anything other than a liar and scammer long ago, perhaps you will too.

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  127. Oh man now ya made me go look .....

    RE: RANT: How not to suck at animal care

    All well and good as a topic but Cathy Atkinson needs to remember she has her horses farmed out across 3 states. This is not good horse ownership in my book. Period.

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  128. OMGoodness...go to bed early and look what you miss. LMAO

    To anon about our new palomino: We don't breed. Period. Aside from the now 13 day old filly on our property (who has sadly tarnished us and I suppose we are now BYBs...SOB SOB WAIL), we have never had any of our horses bred on our property nor have we sent a mare out to be bred. Since acquiring our horses as a married couple in 1998, we have not once bred one NOR offered to stand any of our own horses. I just turned down a hefty stud fee on my Hobo's daddy (someone say him on youtube and really likes him) but he is slated to be cut in November.

    As far as attacks here: I have yet to see ANYONE post a phone number, address, etc and incite people to call them up, write them, or refer to them as "pieces of shit who deserve to die" By the way, that's how Fugs refers to me :)

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  129. Hey Helen?? What state are you in? Depending on your state's laws, if they are using YOUR pictures to raise money and adopt (read "sell" here) their horses, it may actually fall under fraud. Think of it as a bait and switch kind of deal. They advertise your horse for adoption or your horse as "please help save THIS horse" and THAT horse does NOT exist, they are DEFRAUDING the public. Maybe you can pull laws and send them a nice letter of "cease and desist" based on this as well as take it to your P.A. You could also send them a bill for $4999.99....the cost of using your horses for advertising purposes and then for the price of $25 take them to court. :)

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  130. I have to come clean and admit I did email Leland after Cathy featured him in her blog. Although, I emailed my support and I made a really nice friend out of the deal. What a nice man and is he ever a talented artist! I happen to think he has really nice horses too.....

    lolasl

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  131. Lolasl: I messaged Leland too and I called Jennifer the yak lady. After I was abused online by Cathy, I tend to support those I feel are wrongfully gone after!!

    Just an FYI for everyone, there's a post on the fug concerning the wild mustangs, advocating zero populating and using the horses for research.

    NO ONE is screaming foul...We own 5 BLMs from a zero populated herd. The genetics of these animals are amazing and will be lost completely now. They have draft markers in their herd and they look like qh draft crosses. They are beautiful and no more.
    Use them for research???? Let's pull x number of mares and see what happens.

    Not a single person is yelling "protect" them. No one is yelling "make it again illegal for a BLM to pass through an auction house"

    It's a sad day for the mustang if this is the mind set. :(

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  132. cjepson, now that is what I meant by contributing something worthwhile to the conversation.

    It is totally fine to disagree here even about Fugly, but when your first words are telling us that we are acting like 15 year olds who are envious of Fugly, well...

    This is a good place with knowledgeable people who are willing to listen and help in a positive manner.

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  133. Fugly's opinions regarding Mustangs and her opinions regarding urban horse businesses tick me off more than just about anything else she's says. Most things, I just roll my eyes, but these just honk me off, royally.

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  134. Welcome cjepson! Contrary to what CCC says, I unfortunately am a novice but I LOVE the information that is distributed here. I look forward to your contribution on various topics.

    I also contact those who are being bashed unfairly. There was an interesting article on how cyber bullying can actually be MORE harmful than real life bullying. It has to do with the inability of the victim to confront the bully face to face compounded with the knowledge that an internet audience is involved. Pretty creepy.

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  135. I finally figured out that what I don't object to...I condone. The fubb style of attack makes horse owners look like lunatics. How are we going to get new people involved with horses if they see horse owners as mean and deranged?!

    I've seen some major changes in the horse business in the last *murfll... ;)* years. Growing up there were a lot of saddle horses, and a few show horses. Now there's lots of show horses and a few saddle horses. Not good for the horses at all, since the show horses are of a few bloodlines that are frequently unsound in mind or body. You'd think that with all we've learned about genetics...and failed show horses are frequently so burned out that they're dangerous.

    Nut cases like fubb do enormous harm. Her ranting convinces people that owning a horse is not for mere mortals. She also gives crooked rescues credibility. The best case scenario for a horse is to be owned by a family, not stacked up in a field somewhere by a hoarder.

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  136. Hi Lady Gray: I really don't want to take legal measures against any Rescue and I've never heard a word suggesting that Phantom Meadows isn't a good Rescue. I'm not slamming them at all - I'm just whining because I've worked really hard to separate the Rebels from the Rescue System and people keep dragging us back into it :) I've made a lot of noise about not begging for funds or accepting donations. We support ourselves and 'Our' horses either sell, due to our ads, or they ship. The feedlot owner despises Rescues and refuses to deal with them. He proved that by closing off our access to the OTTB's after Cathy Atkinson's attack on Laurie Wiggles. Gawd alone knows how many OTTB's have died because of that group and now Phantom Meadows is messing with the ones left to us. As soon as I calm down, I'll write another letter and maybe post something on thier FB page...and I've posted the usual warning about 'Private Property' on our site..I'm just basically baffled by the world we live in :)

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  137. LadyEvieGray said... or refer to them as "pieces of shit who deserve to die" By the way, that's how Fugs refers to me :)

    you're kidding me... gooooood grief.... what's wrong with her???

    again, my 2 cents, You can't save them (horses) all! There are too many horses to be attended to properly in this country. But if someone puts effort into saving as many as they can, and not have 'perfect' high standards or an 'official' rescue (Cathy standards), along with a boatload of money... that doesn't condemn them in my book and they have a right to do with their life as they see fit. They are enthusiasts to saving a 'life'. if some (horses) fall through the cracks, that's life. we need to deal with it and move on.

    You can't save them all. People who can't comprehend this, need psychological evaluation, seriously, because they are not living in a world of reality, where not every life can be saved, and not every life is worth saving.

    and here's what boggles my brain about Cathy... only her and her nine friends are qualified to 'rescue' horses... she's not filthy rich, so what gives her the right to rescue a horse.... BROKE! ???

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  138. I'm not really up on the mustang issue in the US. I do think its a shame if they are wiping out the herds though. Up here, we have wild horse herds too. I've had the good fortune to come across a wild herd while we were trail riding/camping with our horses in the mountains. While they would all be considered `fugly' as far as conformation, I thought they were so beautiful and it really was awe inspiring to see them and realize they were born up there with no interference from humans. The stallion followed us a long ways through the tree line to make sure we were leaving I guess. Funny what a few girls on OTTBs and English tack can come across when they are out of their element. I know the outfitters in the camp we stayed overnight at sure laughed at us when we unloaded our horses.....they weren't laughing at the end of the weekend when they saw how long we were out with our OTTBs and how much fun we all had, not to mention our `girl food' they loved so much!

    lolasl

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  139. Sadly enough, the mustang herds exemplify the unrealistic public mentality regarding horses. There are a huge number of them, and they overgraze an area and then starve to death unless their numbers are managed. The 'adoption' program is a resounding failure, so there are thousands of mustangs in holding pens, imprisoned for life at public expense. The radicals have even nixed shooting mares with birth control darts! It's okay for them to starve?!

    The discovery channel had a special that was very well done, explaining both sides of the equation. I can't remember the name of the series, though... Some ranchers are overrun and are losing their ranch because the horse herds have chowed down all available feed so they can't run cattle. That's on PRIVATE land. The ranchers were explaining that they had no desire to see the end of wild horses, they just needed to manage the herd size. If some have to die so the whole herd can live, well, that's the reality of nature. Personally, I'd rather see them cleanly shot rather than starve.

    The radicals have an 'either/or' mentality, and run around screaming that the bad ranchers want the herds wiped out. That is not happening, it just suits their agenda to twist the facts and create drama. Most of the feral herds started out as ranch remounts. Take some, leave some, and throw in a good stud once in a while to keep the inbreeding at a minimum.

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  140. Thank you Kestrel. I get so tired of hearing about the 'evil' rancher. Yes, ranchers in specific areas promote reducing or removing the vast majority of wild horse herds, but that is less than 7% of the ranchers that actually rent public lands.

    I have no issues with wild horses on public lands, but I have a HUGE problem with the massive amounts of money spent to maintain removed wild horses on private ranches.

    Mother Nature is not a kind, benevolent lady...She could care less how individual animals suffer to maintain a 'natural' balance. Blue Tongue in White-Tail Deer, Anaplasmosis in Mulie Deer, Mange in Coyotes and Fox. Those animals do not die a quick and painless death and I have put many, many of them out of their misery. Injury, illness and lack of forage...almost nothing lays down quietly and dies. It's a slow, painful process until the body simply cannot function anymore.

    On the other end, so much of the BLM's available funds are going to sustaining unadopted/unadoptable animals in non-breeding situations on private ranches, that they have nothing left over to actually deal with the sustaining a viable population in the wild. It's not like they haven't tried to figure out what to do with the mustangs after capture...adoption sales, programs where inmates work with the horses, holding pens.

    The one thing that always astounded me are the people 'breeding' mustangs. Wow-They have no idea how much they have damaged their own cause, because all they have proved is that people can create the very same horse in a captive environment and people are actually more likely to buy one that has been raised by people vs. one that is way more than most people can handle.

    How ridiculous are the people who claim the west was settled by the 'wild horse'? NO it wasn't. The west was settled by domesticated horses. People used the wild horse herds just like Kestrel said, as a breeding program they only had to manage by throwing in a better stallion once in awhile and pulling out the horses they thought would serve man the best when they needed fresh mounts or plow horses.

    Does the wild horse have a place in the U.S. these days? I believe so, but they have to be treated just like the other wildlife that we manage so carefully these days. Unfortunately, that means if there is a surplus of unadoptable animals, they need to be destroyed. Horses live a long damn time...Why can't people figure that one out?

    Don't matter if it is the subject of the wild horse, the rescues or private ownership. A large majority of horses live over TWO DECADES. If a mustang is pulled when he is 5 and cannot be adopted...he could live another 15-20 years. Rescues who save older or crippled horses don't seem to realize they could be stuck taking care of them for another decade or so and the private sector has become great at using up a horse's useful life in the first 5-6 years and then don't know what to do with the still breathing carcass they have physically or mentally ruined.

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  141. Oh, Kestrel and BEC - stop making sense! People who don't own horses and don't know the time and money and effort and money and money that it takes to support a horse are the ones with the romantic, unrealistic notions about the mustangs. I know plenty of people who have put their money where their mouth is and adopted/bought a mustang. Good on them. But there are SOOOO many mustangs languishing in giant holding pens across the west that the BLM needs to get tough and manage these horses like a business. And they probably would have already if it weren't for the howling of the horse romantics. But you don't read much about a sensible approach when the media prints/posts any articles about the mustangs. It's always about the proud, beautiful image of the American West. Very one-sided and again, unrealistic. I don't want them gone, just managed properly. Did I mention that horses cost a lot of money?

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  142. you know what always p***** me off...
    Plan "A" with no Plan "B"

    Plan "A" shut down the slaughter houses...
    Thanks Willie and crew.
    Plan "B" .... ----------silence--------
    Thanks Willie and crew.

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  143. I love these reality checks.

    I hate the helicopter round-ups.

    Thanks, kestrel & BEC.

    Off to enjoy some sunshine!

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  144. Romeo, Katybug(now deceased), Lady Evie Gray, Titan & Sundance all came from the same zero populated herd. They have all found their way to us from different places after they were titled and we seriously LOOK for others from their herd. They are not what many people think of when they hear "mustang" They are big (that's Eve on my avatar). They are all 15.3hh or bigger and Romeo is the lightweight at 1100. Titan weighs in at 1450 and is a size 3 shoe. This herd showed great genetic diversity with the addition of draft horses that ended up running with them And, they were starving to death so the BLM brought them all in. We also own Ducky, Albert Josie, Maddy & Hitch. If you line all of our mustangs up, you will see great diversity (even within the drafty herd...Romeo was their band stallion)

    Only Hitch has come directly from the BLM. The rest are the product of mustangs that have ended up unwanted, deemed unmanageable, or dangerous. We do NOT consider them rescues really. We paid for them. We chose them, just as if they were high dollar show horses. But, in the scheme of things, they too are the product of a program that is a move them up and out system. They have standards for taking your mustang home but little is done when an adopter doesn't not follow the guidelines.

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  145. Posted a response to Tbs_and_Stangs. I tried to make it sound like a helpful outsider. Did it work? :D

    ~FenrirsRagnarok

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  146. I personally believe the managing wild horses is the biggest joke and waste of money this country has ever seen go on for many years.

    If we are going to protect mustangs, we need to fight for the rights of the Asian Carp, some bullfrogs, several plant species, feral cats, feral pigs, etc. You fight for them, you better be backing up those things as well because that is what you are doing. Trying to protect a non-native species doing more harm than good to the environment and wasting people time and money.

    Horses died out in the Americas long ago. A long time ago. Then some people brought some over, then left them behind and now they're protected because they're a part of our heritage and culture? How on earth are they a part of our heritage and culture when they didn't exist until a few hundred years ago and these people were here long before that?

    Why on earth would you fight to keep an invasive species around? Because it's pretty and you like it? Sorry, but they need to be packed up and shipped out. Me and most of the population don't want unhandled, unbroke, spooky, potentially pregnant, horses you need somebody advanced to handle and break. What makes it worse is people breed them. The government can't give them away, so why on earth would you continue making more? We have horse problems on both sides. We don't need more mixed breed mustangs as much as we don't need thousands more QH crosses. I personally don't want to go see them running about on the range, either. Running around and eating isn't exactly a trait we bred out of domestic horses.

    Sorry, but to me they're better off being a meal for a tiger at the zoo. They'd be put to much better use and wouldn't be a problem anymore. Research isn't an option to me with them. We have plenty of schools who have horses to work with on that field already. We'd treat other invasive species the same, why do we give two shits about the mustang?

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  147. Romeo is a mustang who is a prime example of the BLM adoption program failing and why there are so many standing in holding pens. He was the band stallion and was adopted out as a stallion (pretty damn rare). The adopter agreed to geld him and instead began standing him on any mare of breeding age. Someone did report her to the BLM. When they arrived, Romeo was in a field with some 200 mares of varying breeds, ages, conformational nightmares, & even some of his own daughters. He was down on his knees from breeding but if she haltered him, he would stand, do his job and then collapse (hence the name she gave him) He was "repossessed" and immediately was adopted out again ..still a stallion and found himself in another BYB operation. This time, they were crossing with a Fresian crossbreeds (WHAT????) She used him and then sent him back. This time he was sent to one of the prison programs. It's rumored he killed a man there (we have not been able to verify this) and was going to be put down as dangerous and not suited for domestication. He was never going to make it to the long term holding facility and get the 2nd brand on his hip. (neck freeze brands are the BLM code the 2nd brand identifies long term hold) A man in NE stepped up to bat for Romeo. He offered to adopt Romeo and find the right home. He gelded him immediately at the age of 11 yrs. He then called us. I drove 9 hr with an arm in a sling to put him and Katybug (his daughter) on our trailer. That was in 2006. In 2008, Romeo was finally under saddle. He is now my hubby's mount and a wonderful ranch horse. However, had the right person not come along at just the right time, Romeo would not be. You can't save them all....but you have to discriminate on who to save. And, yes...there has to be some kind of a plan..........

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  148. Cinnamon...
    I have to disagree with you slightly. The genetic testing on certain herds show markers going back to Arabians, Spanish barbs, and older ancient breeds. Some of the herds are very "typey". Like the ones that have TB markers. There are gaited mustangs. Mustang mules. on and on....

    I firmly believe that it should be COMPLETELY against the law to take a BLM mustang and breed it domestically. It's a gamble and I'm so sick and tired of seeing these people with I have a 3/4 walker 1/4 mustang because I bred my 3/4 walker to a mustang. ICK!!! STOP THAT!!! You want to talk about BYB at its WORST.

    Also, since we are ranting on this...TITLED BLM MUSTANGS are NOT registered. This simply means the BLM relinquished ownership and the horse can now be treated as a domestic animal...no longer property of the BLM. STOP PUTTING $$$$$$ on your "registered BLM mustang" GRRR

    And since CS brought it up, wouldnt most unwanted horses be put to good use as a food source? This is the whole slaughter vs non-slaughter debate. But if we are going to capture wild horses for the sole purpose of slaughter is it wrong to slaughter the by product of BYB??

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  149. Here's the thing, we have Arabians that go back to Arabians, Spanish Barbs that go back to Spanish Barbs, and other various well bred horses who do have ancient strains. At the same time, it doesn't make them any less mixed bred than others. Why would I want a mustang when I could have a nicely bred pedigree horse?

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  150. I don't know CS. Why would you want a QH not a TB or a Morgan or a walker? Personal preference. The mustangs we have are all intelligent, well put together and overall nice horses perfect for what we do. But then again, I like my saddlebred qh cross we got from an auction in 1998. I like the qh paso cross we got from an auction in 2000. I like the grade appy we bought off a dealer's truck. I like the therapy pony of complete unknown origin. Disposition, heart, conformation, coloration, then pedigree. However, we DON'T breed and we DON'T show at upper levels. Maybe we should rename our ranch Heinz? ;)

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  151. Since we're talking about breeding horses... why would we want to do something like this

    http://www.nasdha.net/NASDHAForms/2008%20rules%20&%20regs%20March%202008.pdf

    they are "striving to produce a new breed of draft horses that are spotted in a paint/pinto fashion. This is not a color
    only registry but the start of a new draft breed that is spotted."

    Why should we make a new breed when there are TONS out there already.

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  152. On twitter today, Cathy posted a picture of her 30 yr old mare as an example of how an old horse should look. I agree that the horse looks great for her age. What she doesn't mention is that the horse has been at a retirement farm in TN for the past several years and they are the ones responsible for keeping that mare in such great shape. I think Cathy sees the horse once a year if that. I always have wondered how she affords to board her horse at Paradigmn and keep BYC in training considering neither one are cheap.

    On a truely bitchy and catty note: Remember a few weeks ago when Cathy blogged about gaining 10lbs due to eating too much junk this winter? Ummm, going by this pic she posted on twitter, it was a LOT more than 10lbs. I think Cathy needs to actually board one of her horses in the state she lives in and get off her butt and practice what she preaches!!!

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/48003286.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1285194692&Signature=C%2Fq9til2f7qGANHY2PIoi9uLtXI%3D


    lolasl

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  153. oh and FHOTD was down due to her not paying her bill.....

    "Blog's back up, sorry about that, guys! I paid a vet bill and forgot the blog was due to automatic-bill. Automatic-bill FAIL on my part! "

    lolasl

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  154. This may come out as the unpopular vote here regarding the paint/pinto spotted drafts ,but another way to look at promoting good quality breeding practices

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  155. *snickers*

    she's so fugly why would a polo player cheat on his wife with her??

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  156. Fern...Not unpopular but I personally see it as a fancy way of saying "my grade horse is now registered". But I feel this way about the pinto association changing their rules to let in pretty much anything but appys, mules and donkeys in. Same with the blue eyed horse association. Color registeries, national sport horses, half arabian, ssh...In my opinion: this is just a way to slap papers on a grade horse so people feel good about their horse. Now I may have the unpopular vote & I don't want to step on toes or hurt feelings but a grade horse is a grade horse is a grade horse...no matter how pretty or what kind of registry (please no history lesson on where the morgans came from...the qh came from...the appendix..etc.) I feel this idea of "new breeds" and "half breed associations" and "crosses" DOES indeed encourage BYB-ing in our overcrowded horse world and has the potential for some serious "OMG ooops" babies.

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  157. She's nuked her pic, I just tried to look at it. I wanted to know what her 30 year old mare looks like. My 30 year old mare looks like an old 30 year old horse and I would like to say, not all elderly horses are going to look like three year olds. That's one of the first things I've ever disagreed with her on. Horses, like people, are never going to look the same at a certain age. I wish my old mare looked as good as she did seven years ago, but she doesn't. She's had all her vetting, she gets plenty of foods and all the hay she can eat, clean water, grazing, I just can't cure old.

    ~DK

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  158. Mendy and I posted at the same time, so I didn't get to read what she said.

    Mendy, I whole-heartedly agree with you on that.

    ~DK

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  159. She already took down her pic???? LMAO!!!! That means she is monitoring this blog very closely. The link wasn't even up for an hour. Needless to say she is looking a bit `fugly' but well fed, herself.

    Her mare does look 30, but she is in very good weight and a nice coat. Paradigm Farm takes immaculate care of their retirees. All the credit goes to them. You can see plenty of pictures of the mare on Paradigm's blog. The horse's name is `Harmony' and she's grey and very sway backed. I believe she inherited the horse from one of the polo players she was sleeping with, but don't quote me on that....


    lolasl

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  160. The pic is still there. Try either of these links...

    http://twitpic.com/skvkm

    or

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/48003286.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1285197502&Signature=TpFSnmwZwY6gFNVmYiNvPwh2ldg%3D

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  161. Does anyone else ever wonder if a plain, unmarked sorrel/chestnut (or bay or gray) horse was ever substituted for another and sent off with registration papers that didn't belong to it? Once in a while I'll see a QH with such a dished face that I wondered where it came from, even though I know that QHs came from a mix of horses many decades ago. And I know that TBs are direct descendants of Arabians, but still....

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  162. The first pic came up that you posted, but I'm still getting errors on that second url you gave. And when I clicked on the link she posted on her twitter, it came up as unavailable, clicked it just now and the pic is there. Wonder if it's the same one?

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  163. Well thare is that. I was thinking more on the lines of the Canadian Appaloosa horse club, who will not register "cropouts" (horse who sho Appy characteristics with not registered parentage in the regular registry) like the US club , but instead is building in and Annex to the registry , which will recor data on these horses and promote good management , while an annex horse will not belong in the reg registry ,it will still carry "specail"papers and the lineage will be followed from that point

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  164. D.K.-You too are correct in that you cannot cure age. We lost a 32 yr old saddlebred mare this past winter. She just died. We had several people asking us "what happened" and "why couldn't you save her" Hey folks..she was 32. She was struggling the last 2 yrs with weight and though she was in good flesh, she looked old. She was graying around her face, her mouth was terribly wrinkled and she was starting to stiffen. But she was in no way needing to be put down...she was just old. And one night she laid down in her blanket in the barn and died. No blame, no need to "save her" she was old. And you are right, you can't cure old!!!

    to Anon 4:24...ALL THE TIME!! Lifting papers is a real problem with BYB and dealers in the Midwest. A few years back, we owned a "BIG QH". Papers were for a solid sorrel with no markings. He no more looked like a qh than I do. He did look like a very old TB but there was no lip tat (so we know he wasn't on the track). We also have a little sorrel mare at the ranch that we bought from an auction. She was called an Arabian in the ring and a set of papers were passed up to us. We knew when we bought her she was no arab but she was exactly what we wanted at the time. A year after we bought her, the previous owner saw my daughter win rodeo queen on this mare & wanted her back. She said "oh they grabbed the wrong horse and sent her to the sale" Hmmmm. Wrong horse huh? Did we mention they were riding a sorrel qh for the year ON THE PAPERS that they showed us as proof our "arabian" was theirs. It's a GINORMOUS problem around here.

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  165. A local guy raised QH racehorses, and one of his mares had twin fillies. One twin died, the other was healthy but stunted. The paper even did an article on them. Years later, the person who bought one of the twins as a grade horse saw the article, and darned if his horse wasn't marked exactly like one of the twins! Person went to the QH association wanting papers...oh yeah, you can see it coming...breeder had used the papers for the twins on two really nice grade fillies. Who grew up and did quite well on the track, retired as brood mares, and had several babies each. This was right at the beginning of genetic testing. Caused a huge mess in the racing world, having to take papers away from not only the mares but also their offspring.

    The Quarterhorse registry finally started registering TB crosses, since so many QH barns had a TB stud out back!

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  166. I recall before they brought in DNA testing a few TB `ringers' on the track. Breed the mare to a class stallion, but register the foal as being by another stallion in order to boost lesser stud's progeny earnings. DNA testing has put an end to most of that, although I guess if you had a gelding with the same markings as a bum colt, you could register one as the other.....I know that by the time we bring them over for tattoos, the papers aren't always `exact' as far as markings changing or white hairs have suddenly sprouted up in the flanks or something.

    I would like to see horses with hereditary issues such as HYPP unable to be registered at all. Its the only way you're ever going to effectively wipe it out.

    lolasl

    btw, both links were for the same picture. It was of Cathy and a dog on a bed. It wasn't pretty....

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  167. I'm really happy to see a lot of registries and at least here in Missouri the coggins test having you submit pictures of the horse. It prevents people from using that paperwork on another horses for breeding/showing.

    The one problem I see is with color. Is the horse chestnut or sorrel? Is he a dark bay or sunbleached/faded black? Is she a grey or a white?

    The chestnut/sorrel debate is complicated, there are very few concrete answers. The one I like to go with is that it's the same color, but English riders prefer chestnut whereas Western riders prefer sorrel.

    Dark bay vs black. My old TB was as black as he can be but in the racing records he is a bay. His picture can be seen at http://caitlinswonderfullife.shutterfly.com/collage (the picture in the 2nd row on the right and the third row on the left are both him)

    Grey vs white is also fun... they are only white if the skin is pink when the horse is wet...

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  168. So am I the only one who finds it hysterically funny thet the picture posted was essentially at "Twit pic"?

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  169. TBs only register as chesnuts, not sorrel. Until recently, the did not register any horse as black. They do now, but the difference is that black does not fade to bay or brown. I have a true black (registered as well)QH that never fades or turns a different color. My TB was also black, but he would fade. He had brown in his muzzle and faintly in his flanks so was registered as a Drk Bay or brown.

    QHs will register as sorrel obviously, but I always took that to be lighter than a chesnut. Also, a sorrel has the same color mane or lighter whereas a chesnut has darke hairs in their mane. I might be wrong on that as I haven't been involved with the AQHA for quite a few years now.

    As far as grey vs white. Very few horses are actually truly white. Older greys will turn mostly white, but they still have dark pigment and eyes. I'm not sure I've seen a horse registered as `white'.

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  170. I've never seen one registered as white either, but I've heard lots of people say "look at that white horse" because they are not horse people...

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  171. Y'all, please, let's don't start doing the Fugly dance and hunting down people who post anonymously. If they want to be anonymous that's their privilege. If BHM or CS had wanted everyone to post under a name, they could have set up the blog that way.

    I started reading Cathy as part of a research project on uses of social media and networking. I know about horses (more than fashion/food/diabetes some of the other areas researchers looked at) so I looked for blogs trying to spread information about horses. I wanted more than "Jill ate all her grain and I refilled her buckets twice today" type blog. That's how I found Cathy when she was blogging about conformation.

    I think Cathy needs to be watched very carefully. I think she is dangerous. Often she lapses into the "Human Flesh Search Engine" mode. Vigilantism is illegal in the USA. We are a nation of LAWS, not "I don't like what you are doing so I'm going to sic my followers on you".

    It drives me nuts that Cathy claims 1st amendment violations when someone chastises her for excesses. Until CONGRESS makes a LAW about CATHY mouthing off, her 1st amendment rights haven't been touched. Cathy is still responsible for what she says. There is no right to be free of criticism.

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  172. As for trying to make new breeds... I don't see why not. I would love to own a Sugarbush draft horse. Everett Smith and Michael Muir did it the right way. The bred for a type and a color. IF the spotted draft horse people can do as well, let them have at it.

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  173. My son was looking over my shoulder while I was typing and saw "Sugarbush Harley-Quinne" He exclaimed "Who crossed a dalmatian with a Percheron?!"

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  174. Anon 7:18: A long time ago, my trainer explained the sorrel/chestnut thing this way. A chestnut is a reddish brown horse with a tail and mane lighter than the rest of its hair coat and preferably flaxen. If it's reddish brown with a mane and/or tail that is the same as its hair coat, it's a sorrel. About 13 yrs ago, I had a dressage instructor tell me that English horses are chestnuts and cowboy horses are sorrels. (this makes me giggle but sometimes if you look at for sale ad stat, they seem to support this) We also have a book that states chestnuts are brownish red in color but sorrels are reddish brown in color (HUH??) But my all time favorite came from my former farrier. He said, "It ain't sorrel. It ain't chestnut. It's red." His qhs were all buckskins (4 black points, black mane and tail, dorsal stripe & points on the ears) and his paints were all "red and white" on their coggins.

    Kaede: very wise concerning the idea of vigilante justice. For anyone new, it does exist. We lived it

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  175. I haven't gotten to read all the responses because, happily, I want to respond to so many! Thanks for a fun blog, glad I took the initial beating. I think the mustang situation is atrocious - so sad I can't even comment. On rescues - have two of my own, both drafts and love the bejesus out of them. I also have a warmblood that was bred for color but registered as a north American spotted as well. Unfortunate, really because it carries a stigma when entering a show because he is not "drafty" at all, except his huge ass but as a dressage horse, that actually comes in handy, besides, makes mine look better in breeches! Anyway, about rescues and the people who adopt or "save" animals, at least with good rescues, there is a HUGE contract involved what I can't stand is seeing the aforementioned "non horsey" rescuing when they clearly do have rainbows and butterfly thoughts about horse ownership.

    There is no such thing as a "cheap" or "free" horse, sorry, my rant for today because I was just asked to donate for an acquaintance to save a horse that I know she has no business owning. Kills me! I would almost prefer slaughter for this animal.

    And on slaughter, please don't kill me for this one, but didn't we put the cart before the horse per se by banning it here but not stopping the export? Seems we could've regulated it better, banned export and taken it from there. I don't like slaughter, but, for some, meat is meat. I am by no means a vegetarian but I wouldn't eat my horse, to me they are very large pets but for some . . .? There's gotta be a better way, am I crazy?

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  176. The sugar brush draft is adorable! Love it!

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  177. Ok - I'm really slow at keeping up - so I've just found this post....
    On the original topic - there are a fair number of ex-racehorses that have better careers as riding horses, and no, not all are top level horses, but thee aren't a lot of top level riders either! So long as the horses ability and motivation levels are matched with their job they are a sucess. There is a reasont hat a number of horses don't make it on the track - they may not like running, others may get out classed due to being tiny.
    I had a 14.3hh TB that won a number of races early in her career - but as she went up in class and weight, although she was quick, her stride length(or lack of) was too much of a handicap for her to beat... she was retired becasue she got really upset when she didn't win, she would go off her food... she failed as a broodmare so was the stable pet... for 4 years (I think that is one of the good things about NZ - most trainers have their own stables and a bit of land, the horses don't live on the track 24/7) until I turned her into a pretty reasonable 4ft show jumper.

    Argg - I'm anon-y-mouse as I can't get my google account to work... when I get it going I'll be Dee once again :)

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  178. There is a gal out there in blogland with some Sugarbush Drafts and the other line is I believe Stonewall Drafts Iron Ridge Sport Horses
    She has just done a fairly in depth serie on the genetic of color patterns

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  179. as cjepsen said "didn't we put the cart before the horse per se by banning it here but not stopping the export? Seems we could've regulated it better, banned export and taken it from there." I believe this fully... which is why I have to say kudos to the Montana people for working on their slaughter house.. http://theprairiestar.com/articles/2010/09/14/ag_news/livestock/live2.txt

    Only those horses that cannot be saved will be slaughtered, and go towards other animals food... how is that not a good thing??

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  180. They are amazing! I grew up on a Danish warmblood farm and so always had solids till I got deco at 40! Now I just can't get enough of those beautiful painted ponies! Doesn't mean I will breed, he's a gelding anyway, but just love that flas and because my grandfather had shires and percherons, I do love a great big butt too! What a neat breed! Never heard of it before now, maybe my next present to myself?

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  181. Ok - I got a name - Yay!

    To Cjepsens comment on slaughter - I'm not too worried about it here - it's pretty heavily regulated - to the point where if you send a horse with melanoma to slaughter, you will get charged (by the abbitoir) the frieght and disposal costs for the horse, as they cannot use the meat off that animal. Also the animal must be free from drugs, again, if drug/wormer residue is found post slaughter, you will get a bill for disposal of your animal. I used to ride against a guy who was an agent for the local abbitior, he's hold a lot of the animals on his farm for 28 days if in doubt of the medication status of the animal and "rescused" some by turning them into showjumpers... and no - it wsnt called rescue!!
    I also know a guy who worked at the abbitior - he'd previosuly worked at sheep and beef ones, but also rode horses. Quit after a couple of weeks as he hated seeing all these horses who wanted a pat, and making a fuss over them as he lead them in for the bolt. He did also say that teher ewere a few rank ones that it was a relief to get through!
    I do actually think that well regulated, humane slaughtr has a place.

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  182. We have to start somewhere and since responsible breeding hasn't been a fad that has taken off, at least we could regulate slaughter to make it more humane and if not more acceptable, at least more tolerable. I hate to see any die, but such is life. Better by our hands than by a knife blade in the neck in Mexico.

    Also, I was told of an area, sorry, don't remember it, where a vet was offering a "black Friday" rather than sending unwanted to slaughter or starving, they would have a day when for a small fee, they would euthanize and remove. I thought a great idea, but obviously not a popular opinion.

    I don't agree with breeding crap and then culling to slaughter but there are cases when a simple euthanization could save an animal from an unknown fate or from starvation, abuse or neglect.

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  183. The age rant Fugly goes on about how old doesn't equal thin, blah blah, really bugs me. She obviously hasn't been around enough horses, knowing their history, and watching them age.
    We had an older appy at our barn that I thought by its condition was maybe 18, and I only thought it was that old because of it's graying face.
    Come to find out the horse was 35! Her back had no swaying, drooping, etc. Her owner told me she hadn't been broken to ride until she was 25, she had just been a companion horse for another horse her entire life. Well, that explained her great shape!
    I have a 26 year old that has hip issues so I have put him into retirement. With his inability to exercise like I would like him to he has drooped considerably.
    I started worrying about his weight this past summer and put him on corn oil and supplements on top of the alfalfa and grass hay he was on (please no alfalfa hater rants, I know many of you think it is evil, I've heard it all) until the vet came out to float his teeth.
    Well, the vet said he was in perfect weight, that older horses begin to carry their weight lower and that was why he was looking to me to be skinny.
    The vet said he has more issues with overweight senior horses than too skinny. Obviously he is meaning horses such as mine that are up to date on floatings, dewormings and a great feed schedule.
    Sure, a horse should not be skin and bones because he's a senior, but I think she gets out of control on the topic and has caused an idiot mindset amongst her rabid followers.
    More than once I have seen ads on my local Craigslist about a "neglected horse" providing the exact address of the horse. In two cases the owners quickly responded that the horses were in their late 20's to which the original poster responds with "old doesn't equal skinny!" Where have we all heard that before.
    From the responses of one ad in particular it appeared she was being harassed. She honestly sounded like a nice caring horse owner, I admit I drove by this place since it was near my house. The horse looked fine, elderly, but had nice pasture, a barn to go into, nothing that screamed rescue me.
    Yes, there are obvious cases of abuse and neglect, but when it comes to older horses you can't just go screaming about what they should look like when you don't know their history. Just because she posts pictures of 28 year old horses that look 12 doesn't mean that all horses can be in that same shape at the same age. Just like people, some look great at 50, others look like their 70.
    Ranting again and again so that know nothing teenagers and college age girls begin harassing people on the internet because they drove by a pasture and didn't like how a swaybacked senior horse looked is just beyond stupid.

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  184. A nice alfalfa has it's place in this world, my horse get it in small amounts as well. Oh, and its yummy! At least mine certainly think so!

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  185. I really don't think I would like anyone critiquing how I have aged at 40, I don't even want to think about 70!

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  186. I don't think it's right for anyone to be yelling foul until the horse's story can be explained. A horse can be thin the rest of its' life if it was malnourished as a foal. If a horse was severely abused (not just neglected, but actually abused) they may not ever look right again. And in a lot of cases, old can equal skinny. They get old, their teeth (can) go bad, they start to lose muscle tone because of not working... there are all sorts of factors to look at when figuring out WHY a horse is skinny... don't judge...

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  187. My QH is nearly 30 and he's struggling to keep weight on. He gets fed his mush and expensive supplements to boost his fat content, but he's still `shrinking'. Any other horse that ate what he's getting would be grossly obese. He's also still shiny and feisty and very much the boss of the gelding pen. That includes pushing around much younger horses and my other horse who is 17.2HH. He is double blanketed all winter long (he loathes being kept inside) with a huge shelter. He's rarely without food in front of him. He's basically a really happy old guy and he'll be alive, no matter what he looks like as long as he's bright eyed and happy. We've been together 28 yrs and he'll let me know when its time to go.....I would feel like a murderer if I put him down before he was ready. He's more than earned his retirement and he's livinig it on his own terms...

    lolasl

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  188. My hubby's old gelding looked like a biaffrin case the last full year, daily mush , all her could gumm for hay, and water always .If you looked at his head ,he was bright eyed and well hydrated, lots of spark. if you looked at the rest of him? well lets put it this way ,I think if her was standing the right way , you might not have seen him at all. Blaketed and in the barn all winter , the best feed I could provide , vet on standbye , 3 days onto green grass in the warm spring he quietly layed down and dided , no fuss no struggle, just time. I would have likely let him go sooner , but he seemed happy enough and hubby woulfdn't hear of it. My old mare ,total opposite , at 28 still fat and shiny and looked about 15. Each horse , like each indivudual person is different ,has different needs and capabilities. Blanket statements do nothing but inflame already sore subjects IMHO

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  189. Sorry , brain and figers not connected GL, can usually translate my babble

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  190. Please don't paint all teens and young adults with the same brush. Sure, it is a stereotype and that stereotype has found a comfy home with Cathy. Not all, maybe not the majority, don't behave that way.

    This is where I think some of Cathy's greatest damage has come about. She is making a stereotype. A young woman who loves horses and thinks that because she reads a "reputable" blogger (Cathy IS published in HI) she knows all about horses. Her ideas are reinforced by channeling Cathy's opinions.

    Cathy's basic ideas aren't bad. Take good care of your horse. Know how to ride, groom, and feed before buying one. Make sure you can afford it.

    It's the details where things get bogged down. Is it horse abuse to ride in a parade? Cathy thinks so.

    Is it horse abuse to have a horse in a straight stall for a few hours a day? Cathy thinks so.

    Are people criminally negligent if they send a horse to auction? Yes, according to Cathy.

    Is it a simple matter of cutting out Sodas and Lattes in order to loose weight? Yep. (I wish that were true. Sigh.)

    Anyone find a job really easily, says Cathy. (Tell that to the 30.3 (as of July 2010, according to US Bureau of Labor) per 100 people unemployed in El Centro CA. It's much higher if you count underemployed (part time work 'cause their hours were cut) people or people who have run out of benefits or people who didn't qualify for benefits. Add those folk in you get closer to 45% unemployed.

    How about you are always responsible for a horse if you have ever owned it or you bred it.
    CAthy thinks you are. Logically no one over 50 should breed a foal cause it could out live them. Don't own a young horse either for the same reason.

    Lets see. Cathy is in her mid 40's right. BYC could live to be 30 ... She is planning on breeding him and according to her own words she is responsible for any of his get... Well, she should quit breeding in 4 years then. 'Cause she'll be nearing her 80's. 45 +30= 75. Add 4 years 49 + 30 = 79. Unless Cathy is planning on bumping off all her stallions get when they turn 21. Then she could go on a little longer. But no later then age 60.

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  191. I get so tired of people saying horses slaughtered in Mexico get killed with a knife to the spine. Here is an article that explains the slaughter house in Mexico. It was viewed by American Veterinarians....

    http://horsehealth.blogs.equisearch.com/2009/02/aaep-vets-inspect-mexican-horse.html

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  192. Ya'all are welcome to your opinions, but I am never going to be pro-slaughter, so I won't click those links. It doesn't matter what they do or how they do it, I'm dead against it. I do respect other people's right to support it, but chances are I would never sell you a horse. All the links and arguements in the world will not change my mind. I've never been for it, but I am violently opposed to it considering my own horse (one I never thought I coudl afford the likes of) was only hours away from that fate when I found him. It turns my stomach every single time I think about him ending up there. In my opinion, no living creature should die in fear with no chance to fight for its own survival. That's my opinion only and one of the only times I'm even going to join on these discussions. I don't have the answers or alternatives to slaughter, I will just never support it or deal horses with anybody that does.

    lolasl

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  193. lolasl: you wont deal with someone who supports it, even if they wont send their own horse, but understands why people do it? or supports it because how else do we get rid of seriously injured or dangerous horses that were left by someone else who was irresponsible? Most people won't willing send their horses to slaughter, those horses end up being the result of previous bad owners. There's not enough money in the world to have all the horses "humanely euthanized" (which it's not exactly humane...) as you stated, you don't have the answers or alternatives, but why cut yourself away from those who say "if it has to happen it has to happen"?

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  194. No, I won't' sell a horse to anybody who is in support of slaughter. If you support it, then you do see it as a viable option. My only way of practicing what I preach is to not knowingly contribute to that by selling horses into those types of homes. I don't see that as a humane way to end a life. Euthanasia is as humane as we can make it. Personally, I would rather see the governments subsidize the cost of euthaniasia to certain vet clinics than to grant non-profit status to all these faux rescues that are really just a front for horse dealing. If you take on the responsibility of horse ownership, then you should probably count on the fact that at some point, you may have to come up with the $500 or so it costs to euthanize and dispose of a horse rather than get that last penny out of them by selling them to slaughter. I really do wonder how people that do that or work in those places sleep at night...

    lolasl

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  195. They sleep just like you and I do lolasl.

    It's not even a question of morals that seperates the pros from the antis...it's a matter of perception.

    See, you think of it as 'getting that last penny out of them' and those who are okay with it think of it as not having to pay for the disposal of a perfectly usable product.

    People don't like to deal with death. For most, especially people who do raise other livestock for a living, it just easier and makes more sense that animals have a purpose in death as well as life.

    Too lazy to log in tonight-BEC

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  196. I am the origianl poster that discussed the older horse. To Kaede when you said don't paint all teens and young adults in the same light, I wasn't saying that. I am not saying ALL young people, I was referring to HER readers, the majority of whom appear to be in that age bracket by their own admittance and descriptions.

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  197. lolasl~ I understand where you are coming from, I was of that mind, too. Anti slaughter all the way, until I started working at a large boarding and training barn and met so many people in the horse community. I work with vets and I deal with people that take excellant care of their horses, don't see them as simply money makers, and sending them to slaughter for these people just to squeeze that last dollar out them. For others, sure, that may be it, but not for some of the people that I know.
    Right now the economy is hurting EVERYONE. Should everyone have a safety net in place for hard times, yes, but the unfortunate fact is that not everyone does, especially in regards to farmers and ranchers. One person I know that I recently discussed this with has been involved with horses for fifty years, she loves her horses. When they are retired from lessons or showing, they get turned out in a big field during the day, come in at night and continue to get the best of care for the rest of their lives, they've earned it, she says. BUT, she has four horses that serve no purpose,abandoned by boarders, can't be used for lessons, no market to sell them thanks to their former owners. It would be $500 per horse to euthanize and dispose of them, that's just not disposable cash that she has available.
    In this same conversation a long time equine vet was there, his opinion from what he has seen going on with starving horses, rescues that are overwhelmed, his eact words were "these animal rights people don't get it."
    My horses won't be shipped off to slaughter, but my opinion has changed as to what other people should be doing if they are put in that situation. Like the vet said, it's a lot better than being given for free to someone that may not be able to feed them over the winter and they starve to death.

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