Spare pictures can be found at these links:
The horse in this case is a Morgan, and I encourage you to take a gander at all the pictures JIC they will help you. Next time I have some color stuff lined up for you guys, since somebody brought it up and reminded me I had been wanting to do it.
If you want to have your horse used for the next Conformation Station blog, please link pictures and info here: Sign Ups!
That first picture doesn't look like the same horse as the other ones, but what are you wanting an opinion on? I don't know a thing about Morgans, but she looks like she's a cute mare?
ReplyDeletelolasl
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ReplyDeleteThe first picture, the front and hind ends don't match. Strong, muscular front end, with a weak, wispy back end. This doesn't flow through the other pictures and, in fact, the "head turned" shot shows a much more balanced horse even though she's in her winter woolies.
ReplyDeleteShe has a pretty head and neck and is probably a good ammy / low level show horse. Nothing totally spectacular about her, a bit of issue with her legs, but will do fine as long as she's not pushed too hard.
Was going to say Morgan after the first shot. Not to dis them but I find they are often heavier in the front with a considerably thicker neck. That said ,they are amazing tough little horse that can do the work!Almost reminiscent of a Paso in front and I am betting ahe paddles. probable a good little saddle horse , I have seen similar types do miles and miles in the mountains hardy buggers. Also the first pic is a bit deceptive as she seems to be "parked out" I am not sure if that is how they show Morgans , but they do with TWH's . Overall not a shining star , but probably a (as GL puts it ) good using horse
ReplyDeleteShe appears to have pretty good conformation, not stellar but good. She's a little narrow and toes out in front, but that's typical of many Morgans as they also tend to paddle. She has a beautiful front end, esp. her legs - they're very straight, beautifully long sloping shoulder with an upright humerus which allows for a lot of reach. She has an average length back, neither too long nor too short with a strong loin, which will be beneficial in her later years. In some pictures it looks like her neck is too thick and incorrectly muscled (too much muscling on the bottom) while other photos appear to have a long, slender arched neck with a clean throatlatch. She has a pretty head that tapers to a fine muzzle, giving her a feminine appearance. Her pasterns in the front have a correct 45 degree angle though it's hard to see in the back as she's not standing square. Overall, she looks like a pretty well put together mare, though she could benefit from more muscle in the hind end and a more correct neck muscle development.
ReplyDeleteA very typical Morgan build, I wonder if she goes country pleasure or park? The body type usually has nice gaits and can deliver beautiful movement. Nice strong low set stifle would give the hind end more strength than it would appear at first glance, nice shoulder. She looks old government type Morgan to me, they're usually double tough and surprisingly strong. Just how old is this mare?!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'd totally want to ride her.
ReplyDeleteThe conformation doesn't look too bad. I don't look at her and think what a beautiful mare, but she seems to have her good qualities. When I first saw the top picture I thought she looked like a foxtrotter...
ReplyDeleteA pretty mare with some leg and movement faults. I was not even thinking Morgan until I saw the trotting photo. She has the look of much of the modern, mixed pedigree breeding. To really say Morgan, she needs more body depth and substance. She is what I call Morgan by elimination--doesn't look like a QH or a TB or an Arab or whatever; wonder if she is Morgan? I have two of those myself. One that I bred (from very typey parents with very typey grandparents and right back the pedigree; genetics are always a toss of the dice) and one that I went and found. The latter has legs that are so bad they make this mare's legs look just fine.
ReplyDeleteI would not breed her, but I would happily ride her.
All I can say is, "Mmmmm, Shoulders." Hehehehehehe. I don't think I can add anymore other than what's already been said.
ReplyDeleteLove her, though! She looks like she can go all day!
~DK
I don't k ow a thing about that "class" of horse, meaning I know. Warm and draft bloods so, sweet face and I'm sure a big fat lover. No other comment, I don't have the knowledge, for my tastes a little top/front heavy - probably proper for her use, though. Didn't watch the videos.
ReplyDeleteSorry, punctuation on iPad sucks. Meant I only am super knowledgable on my kind of horse, heavier breeds. She looks a little front heavy but still a sweet looking girl with lots of durability (based on stature)
ReplyDeleteShe reminds me of our registered MFT. The build is very very similar
ReplyDeleteThat's a Saddleseat Morgan if ever I saw one. I don't think she is back at the knee, I think she is parked out. It's done by having the horse move their front feet forward. I'm not sure she paddles, I'd have to know how she is (or has been) shod.
ReplyDeleteTo me she looks like a good park pleasure Morgan. Their conformation is a bit different than what hunter/jumper or QH people are use to. But it suits them and their use.
Good call, Kaede. I don't think there's anything wrong with her hind. I think she's showing a park stance for a Morgan (unlike the super stretches of the saddlebred and twh). Also, on the paddling....one of our student's TBs is a paddler...in the one photo, if she was truly paddling, you would see that hoof swinging out. I will try to post a couple of pics of our Morgan parked and the stills of poor Lucy with her paddling self..
ReplyDeleteI didn't see a video clip link ...i missed that....would like to look at it.
And where do we volunteer horses for the conformation station...I'd love for a few of ours to be looked over (like the half brother paints who got their bodies mixed up...front end is great on one but the hind is superb on the other)
Have a great weekend all...won't be back until after we get back from getting Convoy ...whooooo hoooooo
Yeah, where do we sign up, I would love outside opinion on my boys, will I still love them? You betcha but am still interested if I'm just lovestruck!
ReplyDeleteEdited the post to include the link for you guys to put stuff up. If there is more than one, I'll pick one at random for the next one. I'm pretty slow about getting over to that blog, so you'll have to bear with me.
ReplyDeleteOkay, but I'm still waiting for the scoop on this mare...can ya tell I like her a lot!? I rode one as a kid that looked a lot like her. The conformation was not perfect, but oh her brain as perfect. Chased cows, showed, jumped, trail rode...the perfect all around girl.
ReplyDeletePsst, go to the link for signing up for the next confo blog, then go to the main area by clicking the title. It's all in the comments of Spare Info.
ReplyDeleteThanks! I wouldn't have a problem at all with breeding this mare, given a bunch of study on lineages that nick, and finding a nice stud that would strengthen her weak spots. There is just so much to be said for a sound minded usable line that can be 'my pretty pony' and go well in mid level show venues. To get to world shows you have to have such a strong minded and specialized horse that they are really not that much fun.
ReplyDeleteShe looks calf kneed, toed out both frint and back, sickle hocked, and very light boned.
ReplyDeleteAt one time there were almost as many Morgans as QH and many have common ancestors way back. The Morgan folks decided to head the way of the high stepping light harness and saddle seat horse. The QH folks decided to work cattle and run short distance races instead and they began to look very very different.
I would not breed this mare or ride her. Not my cup of tea at all.
I just read Cathy's Sept 26th post on "Another Chance for Horses".
ReplyDeleteI have three questions:1) How did Christy know to call Billie Rae? 2) Why didn't Anne Russek call the FBI? On extortion of money at the very least? 3) How did Anne Russek know the girl was Amish? If the girl was on her Rumspringa she wouldn't be dressed like an Amish girl; if the girl was wearing jeans under her dress, she wasn't Amish. Why Id this girl as Amish? What was the purpose?
She's had a long-standing resentment of the Amish, Kaede. Thinks all of them are puppy-milling, animal-abusing people. Because of the cruelty that's been witnessed at the New Holland auction, a sterotype has been established.
ReplyDelete-Paddy
Paddy -
ReplyDeleteI've often pondered the "Amish" thing. Only because before I stumbled upon the Fugly blog and all the accompanying horse abuse/neglect/overwork etc...issues I subscribed to the Small Farm Journal which is heavily into using draft horses for farm work and etc...It is a primarily Northwest publication (published out of Oregon) but there were lots of favorable mentions to the Amish and their horses. An "Amish trained" draft seems to be well-regarded in the "farm work horse" world as a animal that will be well-trained, sensible and reliable.
It was a bit of a shock to me to read about the "other side" of the Amish and their horses.
I suppose the real truth, lies somewhere in the middle, as is typical with these sorta things.
When my mare was coming of age to be trained, I wanted to send her to the Amish to do it, and I was immediately warned not to. I was told that they would break her for them, not me. That's been fourteen years ago and that warning still sticks with me. Isn't started, started?
ReplyDeleteI've never met honest to goodness Amish before, almost rear ended an Amish buggy once with two kids in it. I think my heart is still in my throat because of that. I did not see that buggy until I had my foot on the breaks, then, I rode behind them. The little girl just smiled and waved and when I gained my composure, I smiled and waved back. Thank God there was no screaming of brakes, just a sudden Oh Crap! Moment. LOL
Mennonites I have met, and they are super nice.
~DK
Yes, I personally have no experience one way or another with Amish. I just found it was interesting to see too such extreme opinions about them.
ReplyDeleteWe do have personal experience with the Amish. And, just like MOST other horse people...there are good and their are bad. There are those with a good eye for a horse and nice way of handling them and then there are some who apply the "spare the rod" philosophy to their horses and treat them like machinery. As in all things, I believe stereotyping has been applied here as in many, many, many things the fug does.
ReplyDeleteI just spent 20 minutes googling Amish Puppy Mill and Amish commercial dog breeder. I'm not sure what to think. I did not find any reliable source documenting Amish Puppy Mills. I did find one recent article (Sept 14) about an man by the name of Yoder (a common Amish last name) gassing 93 dogs. Yoder has been called Amish, but the poison gas he used was Carbon Monoxide from his tractor. Umm, I didn't think the Amish used gas engines.
ReplyDeleteI found a few articles from back in the early 90's about a few (6) Amish commercial dog breeders. Upon investigation the dogs were well kept. Some of the new owners complained the puppies they had bought from pet shops had fleas, ring worm, lice. One woman blamed the puppy mill breeders for her 4 year old yellow lab dying of bone cancer.
Most of the complaints and articles I found about Amish Puppy Mill were from HSUS, or from sites called things like dogblog, rescue the puppies, dog connection, The NY Times had one article from 1993. A few TV news sites had done undercover investigations and found that there were indeed puppy mills, but could not make an Amish connection. Or rather they tried to talk to some folks the reporters id'ed as Amish and they refused to talk to the reporters.
Lots of folk are calling for boycotts on all Amish products because of the accusation of being puppy mill breeders. ALL Amish products. This smacks of religious intolerance. Kind of like saying "I won't buy a quilt from you because your kid speaks Japanese. The Japanese bombed Pearl harbor.
Well yes they did, my MY kid didn't. Neither did my relatives or my husband's relatives. We were all over here. Had been for a century.
Don't want a puppy mill dog, make sure you buy one from a reputable breeder, be prepared to spend the big bucks on one too.
Umm, Is it my imagination or do FHotD readers have a problem with folks making a profit off horses?
ReplyDeleteHaven't done it, probably never will, but if I bought a horse from an auction for $250.00, took him home, groomed him, fed him, had a vet check and took the time to find out his level of training, I'd want to sell him for more than $250.00. Even if I'd only had him a week. I took the financial risk. Why shouldn't I get the profits?
Exactly. In my eyes, they see horses as pets, not property. Not trying to offend anyone here, but horses are defined as livestock, which is property. If you buy a cheap, non-working car (the sick horse), put a new engine in it(feed it and "rehab" it), give it a new paint job (groom it), you would want to gain back what you put into it. Right? So why not. It's not an illegal or immoral way to make money... GO FOR IT!
ReplyDeleteYou are allowed to make profits from pets/hobbies too. Think of all the folks selling home grown tomatoes/zucchini at self serve road side stands. Neither is selling stained glass, pottery, beading, or hand knit sweaters. If you breed show cats for a hobby and sell the ones you don't want to show, that's not illegal or immoral either. In ALL cases you have to be ethical about it. Don't advertise 100% organic when you have a bottle of Round Up strapped to you side, don't paint you food storage pottery with lead based glazes, be clear about why you are selling the kitties.
ReplyDeletei just don't get the "horror" at being a dealer in horses or buying them from a KB or an auction.
"inkeesgirl says:
ReplyDeleteSeptember 27, 2010 at 3:33 am
I’ve noticed that Joe Shelton always uses the expression “horse killer” in describing the “brokers” that he deals with, as in “Horse killer Manny Phelps…..” It’s as though he always wants to remind himself, and his readers, what these individuals are about."
This is were I get lost. OK they bought a horse from an auction, they out bid someone else maybe by $50.00. Then when you try and buy the horse for the price they bought it for they say no, and up the price. Why is this bad?
I don't think it is... they are in it to make money too... in today's society everyone needs to find a way to make money...
ReplyDeleteI went to a koi show once held at a water lily farm and koi hatchery. Fish dealer went to the koi hatchery just before the show and picked out some small koi (4 to 5 inches long) for $10.00 a pop, put them in the show, they won and he resold them on the spot for $45.00 each. The dealer could recognize high quality koi and used his expertise to recognize (therefor add value to) what the rest of us saw as ordinary pond koi. Isn't that similar to what the dealers are doing?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't it all come down to a sense of utter horror in subjecting our beloved "ponehs" in the manner befitting, say, for instance, cattle?
ReplyDelete"But horses aren't the same as cattle!" They say. It's just not right to "auction them" or, god forbid, have "dealers" who might "make a profit" on the poor poneh's suffering. There is a never said but inherent analogy between the treatment of horses in auction and the history of human slaves.
Well, guess what folks? Despite the toys and the treats and the housing and the complicated medical regimes, horses sure as hell ain't human. And saying they are somehow in a better class than other animals doesn't fly in my book. Who decides what animal gets better treatment than the others? I know a lot of people, nice people as a matter of fact, who could give a rip about horses, but would love to save every factory chicken that was ever born and give it a long chicken life in a fluffy backyard of bountiful green grass and fat worms.
Me personally, I'm with GL. How can we expect horses to be treated well when we, generally, give a rats ass about cows, chickens, pigs, turkeys and what not. Horses are not superior. They are just more likely to be subject of school girl fantasies. Humane treatment for all! Which, by the way, should also apply to humans!
I agree PF. Better treatment for ALL animals, including humans. I do pay more for humanely raised and slaughtered meant. I also pay more for my share of a CSA. I also admit I buy from grocery stores to round out my food and supplies. I also do with out a TV, cell phone, wii, movies, fast food, etc. I chose my trade offs. I can't/won't force someone to make my choices.
ReplyDeleteWhen I spent some time in Ohio, I met a few Amish people that came by the farm to do some work. They all were very polite and friendly. Their buggy horse looked to be an ex harness racehorse and had prett scary legs. He was also overfit and thin. I used to sneak hay out to him when the men were working.
ReplyDeleteAs for the article on Fugly today...I have a few concerns. I've read Joe Shelton's blog (tbfriends) for quite awhile and I know that he mentions that these feedlot guys really don't like it when people start raising hell with them and will stop dealing with a rescue or anybody if too much grief is caused. They really don't care if they sell the horse to good homes or not. The trucks will leave filled and if you pull one off the lot, another will take its place. Joe has blogged about being shut out of feedlots over somebody raising a stink or giving them bad publicity in the past. This is what bothers me about Cathy. She shuts down pipelines that get horses OUT of those situation by attacking the wrong people at the wrong time....
It doesn't sound like anybody was scammed on the deal on her blog. It sounds like this woman doesn't want people harrassing the broker because he'll stop giving her access to his lot to pull horses off of. The fact she contacted somebody related to the horse's previous connections is no different than Cathy exposing past owners of horses that end up in rescue. Really, in the condition that horse was in, it was his best chance at getting rescued and he was lame in that video (hearing somebody say `nice mover' in the background cracked me up) so probably not a horse that would otherwise be adopted. At worst this woman is lacking PR skills, but she did deliver the horse as promised at the time that was promised. I'm also not sure what the Amish in the story had to do with anything....
I'm sure by now the fuglyites have began emailing, phoning and otherwise harrassing Brian Moore and this rescue. I'm also quite sure that by now, Brian Moore is refusing to allow any rescue access to his lots and all the horses he buys will go directly to slaughter and will not pass go. Well done Cathy, you just condemned countless horses to a horrible death without any chance of getting saved.......just another day in the life of FHOTD....how sad....
lolasl
It's one thing to make a profit, it's another to bilk.
ReplyDeleteHorse people kill me. I swear they are all nuts.
ReplyDeleteOnce, I was given a mare with terrible white line disease. The gal had been messing with her feet trying to fix it for a year and she was not making progress. This was a nice mare, 22 halter points, and 55 WP points. She had foundered and then got the white line thing...
I spent a good 90 days treating her 2-3x daily and got the white line cured. I had bred the mare and she had a lovely paint colt. I decided I did not want to raise paints so I put her up for sale for 2500 with her colt at side.
PEOPLE WERE HORRIFIED. How dare I try and make a "profit" off the horse? Several people called and offered to take the mare for free since I had gotten her for free... I declined their "offers" and sold the mare and colt to someone else. I got called every kind of name in the book! The gal who bought the package sold the colt for a nice price after weaning and had the mare for free. Everyone was fine with that but heaven forbid I should charge money for the horse.
Excuse me but I put 90 days hard labor into her feet, fed and housed her for a year and sold her with a colored colt at side for the price of the colt. Why wasn't I entitled to a return on my investment?
Like I said horse people are nuts. ESPECIALLY horse rescue people. They are the nuttiest of the bunch.
YHI here: Amen PF. Horses are livestock and ultimately ANIMALS. PERIOD.
ReplyDeleteIn the same class as chickens, goats, dogs, cats, pigs, cows, etc.
Treat them all humanely and kindly. As someone who has raised their own animals for food, I feel it is my responsibility to make their lives as comfortable as possible until the end. Even if that end is in my freezer. But none are elevated over the others in my book.
Amen PF, Kaede and YHI. Elevating the horse to 'magical, mystical' status hasn't helped them one bit. I don't believe that they are any more cognative than any other animal and study after study has proven that there are a lot of animals that are actually more intelligent. It just so happens that a horse is usually pretty trainable and become people-oriented very easily.
ReplyDeleteAgain, speaking regionally: In MISSOURI, we pay personal property tax on all livestock INCLUDING horses. This makes them property. This doesn't mean we can "do with them as we please" However, let's say I buy a run down house. Spend time and money on it, turning it from a piece of junk into the envy of the neighborhood. So, I put it up for sale...NOT TO BREAK even but to make money. Someone with the resources to buy and maintain said house shows up and purchases it after some negotiation. Does this mean I "milked" someone? No, this is called good business. Time after time after time you see people dogging ranches, rescues, etc because of money. What do you want? Do you want them to take care of the horses FOR FREE and give them away? Let's get our heads on straight!!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell, I know a lot of people who bought houses cheap and resold them for double and triple what they paid for them. The people buying it seem to understand the concept of also paying for improvements.
ReplyDeletePutting food, vet care, farrier, and educated training time on a horse should count for something. I think the rescues that get donated money to back their horsetrading operations are doing the bilking. Most traders are working on their own dime, and if they lose money they lose it personally. A rescue can undermine the entire market by horsetrading and losing money in perpetuity.
Pigs are certainly more intelligent than a horse. I have a nephew who's a civil engineer with Hormel where thousands of hogs are slaughtered each day.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with the others, ALL meat, milk, and egg- producing animals should be treated humanely. The kids at the county fair put so much care and goodwill into their lambs, hogs, steers, chickens...after the ribbons are awarded and photos are taken, we all know what happens to them. Like Kaede, I buy meat that comes from humanely raised chickens and cattle.
Even the panhandlers around my area have figured out that people are more likely to give them $$ if they have a pet with them. Almost all of them now have dogs standing on the corners with them.
ReplyDeleteI will say, the people usually look thin, tired and dirty but I have yet to see a dog that didn't look clean, shiny and well-fed. One guy had a b/t dachsund that wore fancy little coats and spent most of his time on the corner sitting in his pop-up doggie house. That pair definitely had the awwww factor going for them.
Anon 11:32
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, if a horse is dumped on you, so you put it on craigs list FOR FREE, you will still be nailed to the cross, never mind you already euthed an old broodmare that you had for years, or the fact you have other horses to care and feed. They will still tell you YOU were her last line of defense, and by golly you should have kept her anyways. Not tried to get her to a rescue or give her away for free.
People completely forget how the shoe fits on the other foot. So easy to tell everyone what they should have done. I'm not a money tree, and I can't save every horse, and yes I get my knickers in a knot when I'm blasted for a solution I hated but didn't have any other option other than auction or bullet.
BEC,
ReplyDeleteever notice how they are always on a well traveled corner? Don't you ever wonder how they GOT there in the first place?
I watch one guy get up, walk accross 2 parking lots over to a vehicle tagged with an indian resevation tag on it. Interesting.
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ReplyDeleteAnon at 2:44 PM. "I watch one guy get up, walk across 2 parking lots over to a vehicle tagged with an indian resevation tag on it. Interesting".
ReplyDeleteWhy was it interesting? That he had a vehicle (you don't say what kind. A bicycle perhaps?) that he walked (rather than hopped, skipped, waltzed, flew) across 2 (rather than 1 or 3 or more or fewer) parking lots (rather than open fields, trees, street corners, vacant lots) or were you insinuating something about the Indian reservation tag? Do you believe the vehicle to be stolen? The person getting into it looked perhaps Han Chinese?
I know our homeless folk do divvie up the good begging spots so no one gets all the takings. I also know that most of our homeless have an underlying mental condition such as Schizophrenia, paranoia or Asperger's that make them unsuited to living in a homeless shelter.
Dear Japanese houseboy was a census ennumerator this past summer and had to find out where they lived. Not an easy to trust the government people, not even a nice Japanese houseboy, when you believe that the government people are the reason you hear voices in your head.
Anon at 2:39
ReplyDeleteMy dad had horses dumped on his place while he was on vacation. The horses were in terrible condition. Of course AC was called out, dad had to be located. Not easy, he doensn't have a cell phone. Then he had to try and explain that the horses weren't his, that he hadn't just purchased them, he knew nothing about them. Proving a negative is impossible.
Anon at 11:04 PM
ReplyDeleteWho is getting bilked?
bilked past participle, past tense of bilk (Verb)
1. Obtain or withhold money by deceit or without justification; cheat or defraud.
2. Obtain (money) fraudulently.
Sounds like theft to me. Report it to the FBI or the local police.
I don't think the person who got the horse had been bilked. Anne didn't like the terms and kept trying to change them up. She got the horse at the agreed upon price.
This is not the same as telling some one that the white rabbit is for sale for $10.00 then when you go out there you find the white rabbit "in quarantine" and can't be let go, but they can have the white rabbit if they pay the quarantine fee, the adoption fee (the $10.00 mentioned) the vet fee, and a boarding fee. That's bait and switch. Now theft comes in when the "rescuer" tell the person who "Bailed" (bought) the animal that they can't be let go yet, 'cause X conditions haven't been met and these associated fees need to be paid or the rabbit will be euthed (put back on the truck)
I still want to know how did Christy know to call Billie Rae?
Ok, instead of bilk, how about gouge then? Gouge sounds appropriate no matter how right you try to make it seem.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to make it "seem" right. Horse "adopters" (what is the difference between them and a horse buyer?) need to follow the contract, look before they leap, realize that there is no such thing as a "free lunch" (or a high quality, well trained, sound, good tempered, cheap horse, understand if it sounds fishy it probably is, think about what they are doing, deal with buyers remorse, and behave like intelligent adults.
ReplyDeleteIn horse dealing you can only be gouged as much as you wish to be. It's not like gas or electricity. Items that you actually need where there are only a few purveyors.
Well said, Kaede.
ReplyDeleteAnon 6:30, what makes you think it is gouging or bilking?
-snowponies
I really need a way to contact the owner of the five y/o paint minimal white overo gelding she wants to give away in Imperial, Mo. E-mail or phone # ok.
ReplyDeleteAnyone have intel they can share?! ~kc
Word verf: sushi. «Drool»
I think the idea of having a horse for ever is a bit odd to be honest. I grew up riding, and I paid for some of my universit fess and living costs by selling my horse and some of my gear. I bought cheap horses (they were all I could afford) that had decent conformation for what I wanted - they tended to be OTTB's and "staionbreds", a New Zealand crossbred usually consisting of a TB/draft x - about 7/8 TB and 1/8 draft. I was training them for pony club/show jumping/eventing.
ReplyDeleteI found that although I am very good at training the youngesters/sorting out the mental issues that OTTBS tend to have (no that metal clatter is NOT the starting gates, so you don't take off at 110mph - it's just a horse knocking down an aluminium jump stand) I haven't got the aggressive riding style that makes you an excellent comptitive rider - so I sold a couple of horses to my younger sister, who is way more competitive, but not so good at the slow work. She sold the horses on for more than she bought them from me for after she put competition miles on them...
Between us we were providing a service that many people do not have either the ability or time or patience to do, and we made a very good product - our horses and ponies were know for having good heads (they were smart when we got them... we just taught them how we wanted them to react in certain situations), light mouths, and while they would respond very well to more advanced riding - you could expect them not to go nuts if you did something silly (yes those days when you ge them to drag things around, slide off them over the rump, take off and put on clothes, tie rain coasts to the (english) saddle and carry slimy, new born, miss mothers lambs across the front of the saddle, while asking an ottb to cut the lax mother sheep from teh mob is worth it! (and it even has a $$ value to the right person!)
@KC
ReplyDeleteHere's the info for the Paint in MO.
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1968734644.html
I don't know how to to a proper link.
/hangs head in shame
Or you can just put this into Google:
IMPRINTS DESIGN his registered number is 825705
Good luck.
-k
GL ,is the linky queen ,but since she taught me I should practice
ReplyDeletePaint in MO
to snowponies, the reason I feel that it is? I think that as long as someone can make the excuse of they fed it, boarded it, vetted it, blah blah, I'm sorry but that doesn't cut it. That's genearal care whether or not your going to sell it, you shouldn't expect to be recouped for it. I think its just an excuse to charge an egregious amount of money for something that someone who has the money is going to buy. I've heard too many of my friends get free horses that were wonderful horses. Trained, good health, gentle, all because someone cared about them going to a good home rather than making a profit off of them because it's getting too expensive to feed them.
ReplyDelete"That's genearal care whether or not your going to sell it, you shouldn't expect to be recouped for it. I think its just an excuse to charge an egregious amount of money for something that someone who has the money is going to buy. I've heard too many of my friends get free horses that were wonderful horses. Trained, good health, gentle, all because someone cared about them going to a good home rather than making a profit off of them because it's getting too expensive to feed them."
ReplyDeleteThen find one of those horses and don't whing that ABCD horse rescue/dealer won't adopt the horse out for to you for a pittance. Don't try and change the procedures ABCD horse rescue/dealer set out just to fit you.
Much like the label "organic", horse rescue needs to have some hard and fast definitions. If I buy a OTTB is it automatically a rescue? If I buy from a KB, is it automatically a rescue? If I get it for free, is it automatically a rescue? What makes a rescue? Retraining for a different set of needs? Then most horses who get a new owner could be called rescues. 'Cause every rider is a bit different from every other rider. We train every time we ride and therefore are ALWAYS retraining our horses to suit our particular needs.
I'm not talking about adoption, I don't understand where you got that anywhere where I was speaking. I'm talking about greed for the sake of greed.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnon September 27, 2010 11:39 PM
ReplyDeleteSo do you think its OK for Fubbs to have rescues advertised on Cedar Hills site for $800 and up?
Jenna
How in the world is selling a horse that apparently someone else couldn't sell being greedy?
ReplyDeleteI was given a horse for free after the owners tried for several months to sell it. They came to me and asked if I could take it because they could no longer afford the board and feed. I didn't want another horse really, but I had a soft spot for this horse and the next step for it was an auction so I took the horse.
I have poured hours of time into this horse since I have had it, far more than the previous owner had.
If I choose to sell this horse it sin't going for free because that's what I got it for, that's for sure! Time is money, as in the time I put on that horse. Was that my original intent, to work with her and make a profit? No, because I wouldn't be making a profit. Board, vet care, feed, farrier, hours in the saddle, shows, even if I sold her for $10,000 I wouldn't be making a profit. My husband is an accountant, we've discussed this at length:)
With Great Respect for other philosophies, could we get 'Real' for a moment? Whether you think of a Horse as a Magical, Mystical being or a Beast of Burden, it's still an animal - It needs food and water and shelter and Vet care and farrier services and a myriad of other things, all of which cost money. At least mine do, and mine are all healthy - Rescue Horses are unknown quantities and frequently require a 'bit extra'. Anything coming out of a lot or an auction should, at the very least, be wormed and treated immediately with anti-biotics - teeth have to be checked and dealt with, lice and the 'skin ickies' ( professional term :)) have to be dealt with, and problems with thier ears or eyes have to be dealt with, and that's before you start to assess thier individual nutritional needs. None of this is inexpensive and somebody has to pay for it..It's really cool to say that Rescues are 'Noble' groups who 'give away' free horses to deserving owners. But you basically only have two choices, either you charge enough to cover your costs, with a bit added to for an emergency fund, or you find yourself on the 6 O'clock news, in tears, while AC leads your horses off to thier trailers..And don't even get me started on the costs and trouble of re-habbing and training. Been there, done that and there's not enough money in the world to make me do it again...But Huge Kudo's to the ones who can..It's sweat and heartbreak, and expense and, if in the end, you produce a horse suited for 'better things', then in my opinion, by God, only someone who is willing to pay for it, is worthy owning it..But that's just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 4:15 said:
ReplyDelete"I'm not talking about adoption, I don't understand where you got that anywhere where I was speaking. I'm talking about greed for the sake of greed."
I'm sorry, I made an assumption. Could you define "Greed"? What percentage over cost should a person make on an item they have for sale? Does Adam Smith and "what the market will bear" feature in this definition? Must I sell to the lowest bidder?
If I bought a house in 1960 for $16,000.00, I live in it and maintain it for 50 years, should I be forced to sell it at only 3% (Average profit on manufactured wigits) above what it cost me? - maintenance?
If I have a horse with excellent breeding and top notch training, never been in danger of needing a "rescue", what would you deem a reasonable price?
Gonna be a short statement, this one...
ReplyDeleteRescues should only be operating within their funds. If they have to turn horses away, so be it. There is no profit in rescues, and charging people an arm and a leg is insulting to them. When you are under special status, you officially deviate yourself from the everyday horseman. Problem is, horsemen often know that they aren't going to be able to take in 5 more horses, and pick those that look like they are going to end up selling well. Frankly, I think a lot of rescues need to take a little bit of that school for thought before they can consider charging anyone else high adoption fees.
I think if you pick up a horse for free, or spend maybe 200 bucks on it, 'train it' and turn around and sell it for 3500-5000 dollars and think that's not greedy, that's just wrong.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHow is that wrong? That's business. You ever watched American Pickers? Are they greedy because they take something somebody doesn't want (and often has buried under piles of rusty junk) fix it up and sell it for way more than they paid. That's not greed. That's a good eye for a good deal. Don't shop at Wal-mart. You'll be greedy for wanting to buy that orange for a lower price than at another grocery store. How dare those other places ask for a few cents more.
ReplyDeleteIf capitalism bothers you so much, I'd be more than happy to direct you to a socialist or communist country you'd be much happier with.
if it's worth the 3500-5000 then why not?? If someone gives you or sells you a "cheap" horse that is unbroke, you get it home, see it's papers and see that it has great lineage, it has decent conformation and you were able to train it to do whatever you're wanting (western pleasure, show jumper, pick your poison...), and it is worth the money, sell it for that... don't say "since I got it cheap I'm gonna sell it cheap"... no one sells cheap unless the 1. don't know they have something good, 2. have a defective product or 3. really need it gone...
ReplyDelete~Le Poulet Violet
Greed is greed, no matter how much you try to make excuses for it.
ReplyDeleteI think maybe the Anon has a problem with people who have the ability to take a horse of little or no market value and turn them into a horse of medium/high market value. It does not sound like they believe that people are supposed to capitalize on their knowledge and experience or time.
ReplyDeleteMy question is, if a person is not expected to recoup any costs associated with the normal good care associated with the horse and 'training' has no value...Where does the value of a horse accumulate?
No, this anon is saying, this economy sucks for everyone, not just you. When the economy tanks, you adjust your prices accordingly. If you've got a ridiculously high price on a horse, you're either going to sit on it for a very long time, or you're going to sell it to someone who has the money to pick and choose, which is financially discriminating against someone who is under your class.
ReplyDeleteWhoa, anon. Let me get this straight...selling a top dollar horse for top dollars is financially discriminating...you're sh*tt'n me, right?!
ReplyDeleteYes. If I have a good horse I want to sell it to someone who will be able, and willing, to afford to take care of it. Yup. Big mean capitalist that I am...dear lord in heaven...snork...and I should just give you my house and car while I'm at it?!
Sounds like Anon 4:17 reeeeeeeeeaaaally needs that ticket to the nearest socialist or communist society.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you say that? Because I have an opinion on something makes me a socialist and a communist? Sounds like fugly thinking to me.
ReplyDeleteWay to take it out of context, kestral, we're not talking about a house or a car, or even a necessity item. I'm talking about gouging. Like I said, greed is greed and I have a feeling a lot of you on this forum aren't hurting financially like a lot of horse people are. I was right in my assumption that this is a board full of upper middle, lower upper class folks. I honestly feel that the mindset is prejudice against someone who isn't in the same income bracket. Don't forget, you can't ride papers and you shouldn't count on them to produce anything with a sound mind or temperment. Excuse me, this poor person will now leave the high and mighty.
ReplyDeleteOh, one last thing before I go, because seriously, I can't imagine how welcoming other people who aren't as well off as some here are, or who think they are, can feel wanted here. I want to address kestral one last time. "Whoa, anon. Let me get this straight...selling a top dollar horse for top dollars is financially discriminating...you're sh*tt'n me, right?!" Yes, it is. Tell me how it isn't? Someone who works themselves to the bone to get by, works with what they can horse wise and you tell me how they can afford a "top dollar horse"? Sounds like to me, because they aren't in the upper echelon, they don't deserve it. What really gets me is, there is no compassion here, no one cares. You all have, so who cares about the have nots. Good luck with this blog. I'm sure it still has a purpose somewhere.
ReplyDeleteSo you are suggesting that I take a bath on the sale of a horse to better accomodate someone who is unable to pay its worth? If they cannot afford the horse ,don't buy it .I would rather "sit on that horse until it sells for a decent price than give it away , assuming that the person who "can't afford to buy a big dollar horse" somehow can afford to care for the same horse?
ReplyDeleteIf I work hard at my program and produce a quality horse , I am now considered elitest to sell it for its market value?
Sorry sunshine, I don't really agree.
There a kind of rule about having horses in my books ,I don't care if its a $50 nag or Secretariat himself It will be treated like gold here , so I expect someone who buys a horse from me to have the means to keep it well also .And frankly that costs money ,so if your financail situation isn't alltogether OK right now , it might be wiser to wait
Hahahaha. We're all a bunch of richers on this board and we discriminate against the poor people by over pricing our horses.
ReplyDeleteNone of us are discriminating. Back in my poor days, since I'm apparently rich now;) I bought all the cheap stuff. Cheap blankets for my horses, cheap clothes for my kids, and I quickly learned what it means when they say "You get what you pay for." Is a lot of the cost in the marketing on some products? Absolutely! But there is also a reason your better quality items cost you more, because it cost more to make them!
All of the breeders and trainers on here are not overpricing their horses just to keep poor people from owning them. Although if you're poor I do worry that when big time unforseen vet bill comes along you won't be able to afford to properly care for the horse.
I just think you are having a hard time understanding the work and time that goes in to getting a horse finished. That's okay, most likely you never have, because trust me, when you have ridden a horse five days a week, not just lets mosey around the back yard, but trot, extended trot, a balanced canter, up to a hand gallop, back down with with collection, turn on the forehand, out on the trails without going ballistic over leaving the herd, I could go on all day with the work I put in to my animals. After you've done this for six months, there's no way you're giving that horse away for $600, and it doesn't make you greedy!
When you go to work, bust your rear end all day, don't you expect to be paid honestly for your work, or does your employer tell you you're greedy for expecting more than $5 an hour.
Why in this economy do you see a ton of horses being dumped free or cheap that are green broke, barely handled or just someone's backyard pet. There is still a market for well trained, sound horses. They might now being selling for as much as they were in a great economy, but they can usually still find a home, at least in my parts, which is not Silicon Valley;)
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ReplyDeleteThe subject of fiances are always touchy. I understand, anon, what it's like to want and work for it and yet, have it slip out of your grasp.
ReplyDeleteThe most I ever paid for a horse was 2,500.00 bucks. It was out of the inheritance my mom shared with me after my Grandmother died. (I had lived with my Grandmother, took her to town, to the doctors, cooked meals for her and yet, she punished me for moving to KY by putting in a selfish cousin into the will instead of even thanking me for my time. I didn't do anything for thanks, but that hurt. /rant)
Anyway, I did all the right things for this guy. He was beautiful. Big white paint with a spot on his nose and one on his coronary band, and one waaaaaaaay in the back on his hock. He had piercing blue eyes and was supposed to be a been there-done that. I was told tales of how he rode the blind on trails for the B&B next to the farm. Dead broke, great confidence beginner. I took my trainer with me, who is also a very dear friend, and we both rode him. I watched his owner ride him with a halter and one leadrope. I thought I had found my horse. I put all my money into him.
He was not the same horse once he got here. He was nuts! Reared up and struck my friend twice in the stomach, spooked, bolted, total disrespect, it was a nightmare. Thankfully, another friend of mine helped me to get him sold. I only got 800 for him.
So, what I'm saying here is, maybe I should have saved the money I spent on him and got something better from someone who cared about whether or not this horse and I would be a good fit. I wish I had. Heck, when I get my book sold, I may have to talk to some of the fine ladies on this board, because I think they would find it helpful and considerate to help place me with the horse that works for me, instead of just taking my money without caring if they made the right match or not!
~DK Assuming all of you guys are fine ladies and not a man or two sprinkled in there going harrumph
I am indeed a fine lady. :) And no, I am not upper class or rich. I am a post-grad student who is feverishly saving up to be able to afford that nice little mare in this post (yes, she's a government-bred Morgan, 5 years old; I trained her under saddle at 3 years, love her dearly, she's owned by the university I graduated from, etc). I do not think it is "classist" that I currently cannot afford a horse, even though I just came home from working ten hours (two jobs) today. Yeah, it stinks. But that's why I have a savings account. And it's also why I'm aiming towards my next degree, so that I can have a well-paying job to afford said pretty pony. /rant
ReplyDelete~FenrirsRagnarok, going back to mumbling angrily
I'm not sure all the Anon's commenting on the fair price of horses and gouging were the same anon. The first poster sounded like they objected to a "rescue" being a "dealer" and making a large profit just by handling the horses lead rope. Later on it sounded like someone else complaining that high quality horses were priced out of their range.
ReplyDeleteI have some sympathy with the first point of view. But not much. I bought the horse for X dollars and now I want Y dollars. Take it or leave it. Don't whing that I'm making an unfair profit. Horses are not necessities.
I have NO sympathy with the second point of view. Years ago when my step son asked if I would copy a cassette(!) tape for him and give him a (free) copy, I said "no". One of my friends was the musician on the tape and if he wanted one of his very own, he could buy it. My friend made her money by performing music and selling tapes.
I got a lecture on "Music should be free! People have no right to put a dollar value on music and entertainment!"
Right, tell that to me next time you want a loan to buy tickets to see Nine Inch Nails.
Over the years I heard many arguments that "Dobbin belongs to me because I love him and groom him. His owner shouldn't have sold him but given him to me!"
This ignores the fact the the person "loving and grooming" Dobbin is usually getting reduced price riding lessons for this work or is volunteering to do this work. (Occasionally they have even been told NOT to do the work.)
The OWNER of Dobbin is still paying board, (or the mortgage) vet, farrier, and assorted added expenses. People I hire to groom and board my St. Bernards do not own my St. Bernards. Not even while I'm on vacation/business trip.
With regards to how much an adoption should cost, this is when I start wanting some hard and fast rules (laws?) about what a rescue is.
When is it a rescue when is it a horse dealer?
If I buy a horse from an auction that is in poor condition, is that automatically a rescue? If I buy a horse cheaply is that a rescue? If I buy a horse from someone I don't like am I rescuing the horse? If I buy the next Snowman from a KB pen, do I have a good eye for horses or am I a rescue or a dealer? What should the markup on a rescue horse be? Should rescue horses ever be sold or should they always have the rescue retain ownership? (Like Saddlebred Rescue does. I understand and agree with why they retain ownership, it's just not an arrangement I feel comfy with. I'm not suggesting they change their rules around to suit me.)
Until we can get a firm definition of what a rescue is/does, there is going to be confusion between rescues, rescues who cover their expenses by selling horses, and horse dealers. People who expect one thing and get another are usually unhappy.
I guessed right, she IS g'mt bred! Nice mare.
ReplyDeleteNo anon, I'm not rich, but I sure wish I was! However, I have dedicated years and years of my life and untold dollars for instruction to develop the skills that enable me to turn out a 'high dollar horse.' I have eaten Ramen for dinner so my horses could have what they need, worked like a slave to afford lessons, and taken on rough stock that, in one case, was really and truly a man killer because I needed the cash. I should give my expertise away to someone who has not paid their dues like I have?
My vet has dedicated years of his life to his schooling and I highly doubt that he'll give me a discount just because I make less money than he does. He's earned the right to charge more by developing a skill that most people don't have.
Ha-ha-ha! I farm for a living and make something like 10 cent an hour if I'm truthful with myself!
ReplyDeleteI got my two current horses - one for free and one for $300. Both have issues. But I knew that going into it.
I can never imagine paying more than a thousand - at the most - for a horse. But I don't show or do anything fancy.
On the other hand - if you've got the skills, the facilities, the wherewithal and the nerve to take a chance on a free or auction horse and turn that around and sell it for a profit. How is that greed? That is using your skills. I don't have those skills for sure!
Plus...wouldn't the horse have a BETTER chance of a good life as one with some training, and a higher price tag, than the free unskilled nag it was before? To be honest, nobody checked me out before I got my current horses. They just wanted the animals gone and were happy to find somebody to take them. Who knows what I could have been!
I do agree, that I don't like the assumption that folks have to be, well pretty damn well-off to be able to keep horses "as they should." This is common on Fugly, I've noticed. I don't have a barn for my horses just a shelter (I do have a barn - the tractors stay in there!), I've never blanketed, I feed grass during the summer, hay during the winter and a small amount of "senior" feed. Minimal supplements and all that. Vet 2x a year. Occasional farrier trims but sure as hell not every 3 to 4 weeks, at least most of the year. I have incredibly cheap and crappy tack that I'm slowly working on improving.
Oh...And I don't have a trailer! But I have friends who do, on the rare occasion I've needed one but mostly I just ride from our place. Not to mention, I would have to get a truck big enough to haul a trailer first (dreams...).
So, I don't think I'm elitist. And I don't think horses have to be owned by mega-millionaires to have a decent life. But I do not think it is greedy to make a profit on a horse, if you can. That's the American way!
And just think, if all the "free" horses suddenly became worth $300 and all the $300 horses then became $600 horses, and the $600 horses suddenly became $1200 horses...Well then perhaps we could price ourselves right on out of this "auction-to-slaughter" and "OMG we have to save them, they are on the truck..." crisis we are currently in!
Oh, and for the other anon that is thinking high 'adoption' fees is a bit hinky, I'm with ya. They are asking for donations that are supposed to cover at least part of the expense of rehabilitating the horse. Of course, then we have to decide what is 'high' since prices vary so much from place to place. Dang. Complicated!
ReplyDeleteI don't expect a barn or the "works for horses either, most if not all of mine are housed outdoors year round. I do insist on quality feed and clean heated water(winter) those things are costly,you should see the jump in my power bill in the late fall. Also vet care (as needed ) and farrier service in a timely, regular parasite management , etc manner. none of that is cheap
ReplyDeleteI gotta say, I think the whole thing between "Their not a rescue their a horse trader!" is kinda ironic.
ReplyDeleteI mean, give me a break, the whole reason horse traders are starting to refer to their offerings as "rescues" if because nobody will buy them if they don't! So basically, the whole "rescue" mentality created the problem in the first place!
Oops "They're" not "Their!" Ugh...my AP Stylebook would be ashamed.
ReplyDeleteYeah Fern, we rarely get a time where we freeze, at least for more than a few days, in the winter. So usually the novelty of "breaking ice" is just a fun chore for me as it's soon back to the gray and mud!
ReplyDeleteWhat is this stuff "Ice" you talk of? The "Ice" I get come in bags at about a dollar a bag. You all get it for FREE? Are you an "Ice" rescue?
ReplyDeleteIt's still in the high 80's here in the sunny south.
Nooo, no grey, no ice! I am so not ready for winter time. I don't want cold and mud and dreary days. *Cries* It got up to 74 today down here, but last night, it dipped down to 46. I'm so glad I put the light sheet on my old mare when I fed her last night.
ReplyDelete~DK About to move to Hawaii
Ha ha! ladies I surfed down the wheelchair ramp(for my mom) just the other morning due to a frost and a snappy temp of -9 C(15 F)
ReplyDeleteI want ice to be a novelty. Sniff. *Tears*
ReplyDeleteSnow is a four letter word.
Well...since we had a pretty "non-summer" here this year, even for our standards, and the wettest, coldest fall I can ever remember, I guess I'm dreading the winter a bit more than normal. A few more nice warm sunny fall days would be good (although we do have a predicted nice stretch - suppose to get to 67 one day!). But normally, I don't mind the cold so much. As long as I'm dressed right and keep moving no problem.
ReplyDeleteNow the heat, well that's a deal-breaker for me. Really, anything over over 70 degrees and I start getting WHINY! I know, ridiculous, but hey, I was born and raised PacNWer, cool, wet and dreary is in my blood!
I guess I just don't understand such a profound sense of entitlement. Truthfully, it's really disturbing.
ReplyDeleteI would bet down to the last person here that everyone has earned what they have and work very hard to keep what they have.
I think this is the same Anon that posted awhile back complaining that for $3500 they could buy a used car. If I remember correctly, they had very specific standards of what they wanted and essentially wanted someone to 'give' them the perfect horse.
These kinds of people aren't really the kind of people the horse world needs. A true horse person respects the care, time and effort someone else puts into a horse. They respect the quality of horse they desire and they DO NOT believe that those items have no value.
I think more than ever the 'value' of training and care has come to light. A large portion of the horses being 'dumped' suffer from the lack of either or both...Hence...No value.
Last winter, we had more *Four letter weather related bad word* here than we've had in a very long time. This spring, we had serious floods. We got a years worth of rain in two days. This summer, was one of the hottest on record. I have nooooo idea what's going to happen this fall.
ReplyDeleteWho wants to move to Hawaii with me?
~Dk Gettin' that crochet hook ready for some blankie makin'
I lived in Hawaii for a while, half of each island (the leeward) is a desert.
ReplyDeleteMY DAUGHTER JUST CALLED FROM AMHERST! She is doing fine!
BEC, ya think maybe that's why she never gets the nice horses for free?! I gave a 'high dollar' horse to a friend...who takes lessons, appreciates him, and treats him like gold!
ReplyDeleteGood to hear about your daughter, glad she's doing fine! :)
ReplyDeleteMy writing partner lived in Hawaii for a while, we're actually basing one of our books on it. Now I figure, that gives me an excuse to go. :)
~DK
Glad daughter's okay...where's Amherst?
ReplyDeleteBEC, yes I agree with you. I find it very frustrating when people don't see the value of time that goes into a horse and when a person gets in a tizzy over the price, well don't buy the darn thing. If a horse is over priced, it won't get sold. Yes, there's the occasional person that pays more than a horse is worth, but if I want to charge $10,000 for a horse and someone pays it, what business is that of anyone else? and no, never sold a horse for that much nor have I ever paid that much.
ReplyDeleteWith all the cheap horses out there, anyone worrying about an overpriced horse is someone that wants all the training but not have to pay for it. Again, time is worth something! But if you don't like it, don't buy it, and don't whine about it.
CS
Central Massachusetts. She is experiencing "cold" for the first time in her life. "Cold" currently being in the 50's or 60's during the day. Her favorite class is Econ. Who would have thought it? The kid who was a black clad arts vampire throughout high school, who on her 18th birthday got a black light tattoo on her neck and a Nasal septum piercing.
ReplyDeleteI think the attitude that 'anyone can be a trainer' touted by the get rich quick sellers of DVD's and books has contributed greatly to the number of ill-mannered dangerous horses that wind up rolling downhill until they wind up in the back of a slaughter bound truck. I'm seeing horses that are seriously dangerous because they've been spoiled by people who misunderstood the book. These people never seem to 'get' the fact that they have ruined the horse, and then they expect someone else to risk life and limb to fix the mess. For free. I've seen high dollar horses that have less than steller conformation and pedigrees, and worthless horses with all the papers in the world. Training is 90 percent of the price of most horses. It doesn't happen by waving a wand or holding your mouth just right, it's d**ned hard work!
ReplyDeleteCongrats on your daughter! She sounds absolutely wonderful!
ReplyDeleteShe is, she really is.
ReplyDeleteI thought the Anon that ranted about us `rich people' and not being given a good horse for next to nothing was a joke. I never had much for horse funds growing up. I was lucky enough to grow up on a ranch and had a horsey family, but dumping a lot of money into showing wasn't something they were ever going to do. So, for me to be able to get on some nice horses, I worked for the people that had those nice horses. I got to ride horse that had won or went on to win world championships, I got to ride horse I never in my life will be able to afford to own. I got to do those things by working hard and knowing when to keep my mouth shut rather than act like an entitled spoiled brat. I learned so much from some of those horses, but I learned more from the `cheap' ones I owned and made myself. The horse I own now, I never dreamed I would be able to afford. However, I did rescue him (young, well bred and papered) and got him for kill price. I consider him a `rescue' because he was literally about to be loaded onto the trailer for a one way trip to the slaughter house. He is not an `easy' horse nor will he ever be a beginner horse, but with a lot of patience and starting over from scratch, he's a `forever' horse and I have so much fun with him. He still takes my breath away to think that he's all mine. You make your own opportunities and if you want a nice horse, then take the time to develop one. Now, with the prices so down for most horses that aren't finished or seasoned, its the best time of all to be able to get your hands on something with a lot of potential. But if you came around my barn stomping your feet and throwing a hissy fit because I didn't offer you up the horse I have put blood, sweat and tears into, for next to nothing, I wouldn't give you the time of day. If you came around, were keen, humble and wanted to put the work in, I would help you find a diamond in the rough for yourself.....IF I thought you could afford to take care of it...
ReplyDeletelolasl
And don't get me started on the people who want a nice horse and don't want to have to put any effort into learning to ride. Nice horse gets ruined and whinger pouts because the horse wasn't well trained enough to tolerate stupid. Grrrr....
ReplyDeleteI can make a horse bombproof, but danged if I know how to make one foolproof.
New poster here - I like your blog a lot.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Morgan mare: The shoulder is superb, but she’s bit heavy in the neck/throatlatch. I don’t think she’s as light behind as the first photo suggests; in that pic the hindquarters are a bit angled away from the viewer, which makes her look light behind. The trotting photo shows a hind end that is in balance and actually looks pretty powerful. In addition, the neck and throatlatch in the trotting pic look significantly more refined and correct than in photo #1, and actually appear quite elegant. The “head turned away” photo also shows a much lighter and refined looking mare. I’d suggest that the trotting and head-turned photos may be a younger version of this mare.
And though she appears to have the confirmation of a saddle seat Morgan, the girl’s attire in the first photo, and the very short braided mane in the head shot, belie the fact that the mare is being used as a spot horse – hunter or dressage. I would say that’s a mis-use of this mare.
Regarding the Amish, and their training of horses: You have to remember that the Amish use horses as working livestock. They do not consider horses to be pets (though most horse owners now probably do consider their horses to be pets). When the Amish train a horse it is with the end result of creating a healthy, sound, obedient, and willing worker, whether in the field, as a light harness horse, or under saddle. The Amish rely on their horses to till, sow, and harvest, and to get them from place to place. It's not in the best interests of the Amish to abuse a horse for the sake of being cruel. But quite a few horse owners and horse lovers now think that anything other than allowing a horse to go its own way is cruelty or abuse, and their training usually consists of teaching a horse to kiss. These are the type of people that spread the tales about Amish cruelty. In addition, “non-profit” self-interest groups such as PETA and HSUS spread those rumors as part of their business model. More stories about horse abuse = bigger donations from well-intentioned but uninformed or naive donors.
BEC's, I bet you are right about that anon.
ReplyDeleteI wish I had something brilliant to add to this discussion, but you have all done such a good job that I can't compete.
I will say that my husband and I would probably be considered in that group that the anon was griping about, but like BEC's said, we have worked hard for what we have and we will continue to work hard to keep it. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass what anyone's income bracket is here or anywhere else, and I don't think anyone else here does either, well, except maybe the anon who brought it up. That chip on her/his shoulder must be a very heavy burden to carry.
Oh BEC's, I tried several times to comment on the last topic about my statement on education, but it would never post. I am afraid I didn't say it very well, because when I reread it later, even I didn't agree with it. Way to general, I won't bring the whole thing back up, just wanted to clarify.
Fenrirs, I hope you are able to purchase that cute little mare. I like her!
ReplyDeleteFor those who live in the colder climates, your answer is Alpaca products, that is some seriously great stuff!
I had a long post about this last night, but lost it due to browser issues. and at the risk of going back over rehashed stuff, I gotta have my say *footstomp*
ReplyDeleteIf I own something, there is nothing compelling me to sell it at a price convenient for the buyer. If a buyer thinks it's worth X and I think it's worth 10X then I don't have to sell it at X. If I need the money then that's a force compelling me to lower the price. But if I don't, and I can afford to sit on it then why take less money than it's worth to me?
And, yeah, emotions can get in the way and I can put way more emotional value on something than anyone else would. But that's OK. I wouldn't take any amount of money for any of the cats, for instance, but they're nothing special. They're all random strays/ferals that showed up in our back yard and we took them in. Not worth a dime a dozen on the open market, but I wouldn't take a million dollars for any of them.
This isn't discriminating against someone who wants to buy my cats, they're mine. I don't have to give them to you. I can value them how I want and if you can't afford that or don't want to pay that then it's not me discriminating.
Hubby and I have a business that a couple companies have tried to buy. Looking at the company rationally it's worth a certain amount. Looking at is as what we built, it will take a lot more than the rational amount it's worth to sell it. And we did go through this when we got the first offer. It was a fair offer at market rates. But we decided not to sell. Does that really mean we were discriminating against the buyers? No. It just means that the cash we were offered wasn't as much as we valued the business emotionally. And I'm OK with that.
We are middle class and pinch pennies where we can. I haven't been to Red Lobster since it opened but the mare gets the best of everything and I am happy with that :)
ReplyDeletekaede, I think I have to come and kill ya with some snowballs.
ReplyDeletemeanie, just MEAN.
:)
No, we do NOT have the s word yet.
The I word usually happens first. Not YET.
Great to hear daughter is safe (if "cold") in Amherst!
Cold?? She ain't seen nuttin' yet!
great comments, y'all!
There's always one that has to just be disagreeable, isn't there..
isn't their.
They're!
Feel better, PF?
;)
Howdy all....dang get busy for a few days and you sure miss a lot!!
ReplyDeleteComment on the AC4H and using "dealers": we REGUARLY get horses for the ranch and for our riders from a dealer. We have families who can afford the monthly board and upkeep but saving to buy a very expensive, well bred horse is hard when you are looking at a 14 yr old and going "but we don't have THAT kind of money" The dealer we work with pulls NICE NICE horses from the auctions, quarantines them, vets them and then sells them to me AT HIS COST!! Sometimes they are perfectly fine, many times, we have to ride them for a few months to work out "some bugs" During this period, families at the ranch may sign up on the "calling dibs" list. We post the horse, the asking price and families may call "dibs" on the horse. We also allow the perspective rider to ride the horse repeatedly during lessons or drill team or take the horse out on the trails. One of my girls showed such a horse for 2 months instead of using her lesson horse and they are a great team. So, I personally don't have a problem with a dealer who is providing horses to a rescue. And if they want to keep their relationship secret, so be it. In the business world, there are many, many "silent partners". People do business by proxy. Instead of crucifying a rescue or private ranch, perhaps commending them for finding a use for an unwanted horse. Geeeeez!
BTW: Convoy is home, happy and not at all down hill :)
Yeah, I'm not understanding the animosity and attacks on dealers, ESPECIALLY ones that sell to the public. Seems like they are doing more actual 'hands on' good than anyone. They didn't send those horses to the auction. They are sorting horses, sending the useful ones to homes and the ones that there are no homes for to a useful end. Pissing them off and attacking them until they decide the public is more hassle than just going to the guaranteed kill money does not serve horses. *holds hand up* I have no/zero/ohhellno tolerance for any that obtain horses under false pretenses or mistreat horses in any way, however.
ReplyDeleteMost of the marketplace uses dealers or middlemen. From used car dealers to real estate agents, estate auctions to diamond dealers, someone has to round up the available options, put money into their best guess, and make a markup when they sell something. Ebay to sell something you have no use for but someone else might pay money for is an example.
kestrel, would you PLEASE stop making so much sense!
ReplyDeletegah, it's annoying.
;)
Yea Kestrel, I'm with you. I grew up with horse dealers/traders/kb's. I realize that a lot of the newer generation aren't really horsemen, but those guys sure were(are). I learned a TON from them.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of this newer bunch is harder-hearted because of the flack they catch(besides the fact that few of them are actually 'horsemen' of any caliber). If all you hear from the public is what crappy people you are and how horrible you treat everything, #1-Why would you want to deal with them? and #2-Why would you put anything into sorting through the mess of OPP's to find anything worth saving?
It's kind of hard to have any sympathy for anything when you are considered a piece of crap no matter what you do. Personally, if that was my line of business, I wouldn't let the public in either. Too much drama and emotional venting and rhetoric for my taste.
Honestly, that's why people like Helen and this Christy chick are invaluable to the 'rescues'. They can obviously control their emotions and are working to get as many horses as possible out of those situations before they are loaded on the truck.
In my opinion, if the dealer who bought the horse wants to make a couple hundred bucks (probably the value of the horse if it did go to slaughter) that's his right. He is after all, the one who went to the sale, bought the horse that the previous owner was DUMPING and took it back to his place. Hopefully, the horse was provided with food and water. He has occured expenses associated with that 'job'-a truck and trailer, a place to keep the horses, feed and Yes, even his time. It's obviously a Thankless position and I'm not even sure if it deserves, 'Thanks', but in truth, it's not their fault that other people are the ones DUMPING horses.
The responsible parties are the; indescriminate breeders, the people who fail to train their horses, fail to take care of them properly, fail to provide appropriate medical attention and those who wait until their poor horse is so old to get rid of it that almost no one else wants it.
Like Kestrel, I DO NOT appreciate dealers who purposely lie and deceive sellers about where their horse is most likely going to end up. That is total bullcrap. There are enough people out there, who really don't care what happens to the horse after they have money in hand to have to resort to swindling people.
I don't really control my emotions 'that' well when it comes to the horses, but when you are dealing with a lot full of animals all destined for slaughter, half of them elders or wild and half young, well bred or well trained, the only practical alternative is to advertise the ones that might sell to individuals wanting a mount... and in this economy even some of the most wonderful horses are still being shipped...Also, I owe a huge apology to this board 'cause in one of my posts it seemed as if I was claiming to have Trained horses - I've never trained a horse in my life, unless you count teaching them to come to a whistle as training :)..I was ranting about the cost and effort of re-habbing and, somehow managed to include Training in the sentence.I stand in awe of the people who can take a raw two year old and turn it into a great mount or competitor. The efforts of these folk are providing 'their' horses the best insurance they can have for a life spent with people who value them and care for them. And I'm sorry if I seemed to be making any claim to that sort of expertise :)
ReplyDeleteHelen, what you're doing is saving horses that truly are...no maybe's, ifs, ands, or buts,...on the road to the slaughterhouse. You have my utmost respect! Hey, training them to come when whistled at IS training...:)
ReplyDeleteTriage sucks, ask any battlefield doctor. It happens in every hospital emergency room. Someone has to decide who to save, or they are all lost. Blaming solves no purpose except to absolve the blamers of any guilt they may feel because they have done nothing useful to help.
Right now the economy is the biggest factor. People are losing their homes, their retirement funds, everything, and the people who still have jobs are pretty scared. When the job that you thought was permanent lets you go and you can't feed your kids a euthanasia fee may not be affordable.
Kestrel...You are on a roll! Spot on as usual.
ReplyDeleteOn a totally unrelated note, did anyone read fugly's crowing about the dismissed Dutch rider at the games?
As par for the course, her mostly idiot followers go off on a tangent about how abusive rollkur is and THAT is why she got dismissed.
Luckily, one person in the know actually posted a pic in the comment section of the actual 'damage', which looks to be a small bite on the tip of the tongue.
Someone else also posted Anky's reining run and the fugly crowd tried to 'judge' that as well. Anky ruining reining? Not likely. Her horse isn't traveling any stiffer or more behind the vertical than what we have seen in the good, old U.S. of A for several years now. The western set figured out 'rollkur' at least 10-15 years before Anky.
One question though if rollkur is raising a horse's head up, hyperflexing it behind the vertical and holding it there 'forever', that is technically not the same thing as the western sets penchent for forcing a horse's head down, behind the vertical and keeping it there 'forever' is it?
Crap-that last sentence is horrible grammar, I'm not even sure what I was trying to say.
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant was...If rollkur is raising a horse's head up, hyperflexing it behind the vertical and holding it there, isn't it the same thing as the western set's penchent for forcing a horse's head down, behind the vertical and keeping it there?
Granted, different muscles are being forced to maintain a certain position. But essentially it's the same training method right?
Anky scored a 220 for her ride which is her first WEG that alone is great and she was pleased.
ReplyDeleteWhat has Cathy scored? Oh yeah she dont ride BYC her trainer does. The trainer that took 5th at the yellow horse show *snort*
Oh, PS Lady Im glad Convoy is home!!
ReplyDeleteJenna cause I didnt sign in
A couple of questions, Do folk ride the dressage test on Rolkur? Or is it a training technique? Dressage wasn't don't with a horses head and neck like that back in the 60's and 70's.
ReplyDeleteWhy did Anky ride a reining pattern? Do the Europeans not have any one who rides (well) any of the western disciplines?
BEC said..
ReplyDelete"If rollkur is raising a horse's head up,"...
No, it isn't BEC, but i do see the weird tie-in (pardon the pun) with the low head of the reiner. I don't think either is correct, at all.
To me, RollCuring is bringing the horse's head into his chest, and holding it there.
Forcing him to "break" behind the poll. It's bad. It's very bad.
It creates noodle-necks, and uncontrollable horses.
Their link to their hind end is lost, with drilling in that forced position, no matter where the horses's head is, high or low. If it's FORCED to stay there, it's wrong.
Anky is a reiner now, and i can't find a link of her ride that's close enough for me to see..
(hint, hint)
;)
I gotta say, the riding quality wasn't very high, with some of those reiner riders. One woman almost fell down doing her final left turn, the one where they stop/slide, and then back up at a hundred miles an hour.
Why are the horses heads so low?
:)
Just kidding. I truly think it's weird, I'd have a heck of a time looking ahead, if I felt the horse was staring at the ground right in front of his nose all the time.
Dressage has really, really, really changed, kaede, and not so much for the better.
It was NOT done like that in the past!
Or I should say, it wasn't rewarded.
RK's an easy cruel way to quick/train a horse.
Break his nuchal.
Did you see the pic of the horse that bit his tongue's ONE canter shot. His head is up, and he looks normal, and the rider looks frickin' petrified..
The new dressage.
Forward?
WHOA
To Riding that goes back to forward:)
I remember being told to do half halts to get more impulsion, part of the goal was to get the horse face to near (never past) vertical. This would happen by the horse rounding his back and engaging his hind quarters and therefore dropping and rounding his neck. Getting the face to approach vertical.
ReplyDeleteA funny story. Well, I think so anyhow. When I started to ride saddle seat it spooked me to no end to have the horses head and neck come up and the back hollow out. This was JUST WRONG. When I discussed it with my teacher she asked me how could I tell when my hunter was going to buck? If the horses back was always rounded they they could always buck. This was indeed true. I learned to sit bucks, horses occasionally bucked just because they felt good and you never knew when it was going to happen. In riding saddleseat you can feel a buck coming on and have time to do something.
Rainer Klimke was one of the most beautiful dressage riders ever.
ReplyDeleteI think rollkur is extremely ugly, not to mention cruel. How can the horse see and breathe? and just what do the proponents think they are accomplishing with coercion and flexion gone to the extreme?
There's a strong comparison with rollkur to the set of the outer-two horses in a troika- they are bent severely outward and with noses to chest, too, and cantering while the center horse trots.
paddy
Well, I do have to admit that when I first saw the show ring's type of collection...I swore that I never ever wanted to ride a 'collected' horse! My instructor had to talk me into at least trying the concept by pointing out that a good trail horse knows when to collect. And when not to.
ReplyDeleteOnce I learned that collection was for a specific type of movement I was on board. I still don't get why you would over collect a horse and never let them out of the position...must be just me...
Anky's reining ride
ReplyDeletehttp://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1802
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntu6ke7d2zo
ReplyDeleteShawn Flarida on RC Fancy Step winning the first go. His horse walks in with her head way low, but works with her head level. I love the little semi stop between the big/fast and the small/slow circles. His horse works and spins (or turnaround as it's called now) on a loose rein. He's the pro's pro at reining.
Anky seems like she's wanting her horse to be on the bit and overbent all the time (which is not surprising) but the horse can't work as fluidly with her hanging on him. Goes to show you what a patient guy he is. I'm sure it's very hard to go between such different disciplines and not use your dominant riding habits on your non-pro sport.
The games will be on TV on NBC Sunday, October 3, from 1 to 6 p.m. EDT, featuring eventing, individual reining and dressage (thanks AQHA email!).
I didn't get it until I looked at the results and probably everyone figured this out but me: Many of the European riders are using borrowed reining horses. I know that reining is getting more popular over there, but I recognized several of the horse's names and looked up the owners. So it's also kinda hard to ride a new horse.
Sorry once again for the lack of linking skilz.
-k
BEC said "Her horse isn't traveling any stiffer or more behind the vertical than what we have seen in the good, old U.S. of A for several years now."
ReplyDeleteOh, whew. I wondered. I didn't want to get TOO offensive;)
of course, why stop now?
thanks for the link!!!!
That video is hilarious. Anky's horse STILL wouldn't stand...
ReplyDeletefunny, that.
Anky'sRide
ReplyDeleteThanks again, Anon!
Shawn'sRide
Just to be helpful..
Took me two years to figure out links..
I'm not that fond of Tinseltown. I think he moves stiffly and is one of those horses bred to have his head dragging, but I absolutely love Tim McQuay. He is the master of spins and slides. It's a bit surprising that Tim underspun his second spin, but just goes to show that these things can happen to anyone.
ReplyDeleteTim McQuay
I do Fancy Step is a much more fluid moving horse than Tinseltown, which to me makes him a more enjoyable horse to watch.
Crap, my linkie didn't work
ReplyDeleteTim McQuay
Jeez louis, I need more coffee apparently...
ReplyDeleteMeant to say, I think Fancy Step is a more fluid moving horse...
Gaaahhhh...I'm going to go away now because obviously my fingers are not clicking with my brain this morning.
But the Tim McQuay link works in my previous comment.
Anky's pattern was painful to watch. She may be all that in dressage, but she is not even a world caliber western rider. She's riding right handed with her wrist `broken'. She was on that horse's mouth at all times. He fell backwards out of his spins and would not stand still. His mouth was also gaping in his stops...poor thing. I heard that was an issue with her dressage horses that they wouldn't stand still either, although I don't profess to be an authority on dressage. Obviously, her style of riding does not translate as well to western disciplines. At least in the reining world she's not `Anky', she's `Anky, who?'. It bothers me that just because you are tops at one discipline, you think you can just hop on a reining horse and be world class. Maybe she realizes its not as easy as it looks....Those guys that are at the top in reining have put just as much time and dedication into their sport as she has in dressage. I don't see any of them hopping in a dressage horse and competing at the world level just because they are who they are....
ReplyDeletelolasl
don't you think that it's time Cathy shows her resume for her 35 years in the saddle? With all her name-dropping, you'd think she'd tell her sheeples who her mentors were... but maybe there aren't any.
ReplyDeleteUgh. I don't like rollkur. I don't understand rollkur. "Ride into the bridle" is what I heard when I rode dressage. I watch Reiner Klimke and Ahlerich and get "misty" at the beauty--the Olympic victory lap, the MSG NHS video. I usually watch those videos when a rollkur story gets big. The horse bit his tongue though. Damn Fugs, my horse bit a piece of her tongue OFF while out in a field by herself. It was gross, I found it--like a piece of mushy bologna. My other horse bit a piece of tongue off another horse. Really gross. Rational, researched articles about rollkur are needed. Education, not histrionics. Oh wait, we're talking about fuglyblog. Nevermind.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I know it's old, the commenter gone but I don't care...a horse named Winston was purchased for $2,000. Soon after, he sold for $45,000. Greed? The horse was Big Ben. Worth every single penny.
I read somewhere about having a horse bend like that compresses the windpipe and reduces the oxygen intake. I couldn't do that to a horse, I just couldn't.
ReplyDelete~DK
silly question/comment time - do all top reining horses have to be palamino???
ReplyDeleteIt's just the 3 links shown are all pally's :)
(yeah - I rode english, and I'm from NZ, so I know jack about western.
They're not ALL palomino, but some of the best reiners/working cowhorses are from lines like Shining Spark a palomino (Anky's horse Whizshiningwalla BB), Nu Chex to Cash a palomino, sire of Wimpys Little Step another palomino (Flarida's horse RC Fancy Step) and Hollywood Dun It, a dun horse with lots of color in his background (McQuay's horse Hollywoodtinseltown). I love palominos, so I don't mind at all.
ReplyDelete-k
This is Stacy Westfall. Her horse is NOT a palamino.
ReplyDeleteAnd Stacy's horse Roxy does not carry its head below its knees :)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP3ZFZ7ZZrU
ReplyDeleteStacy's opening night ride
I love Stacy Westfall! I bought her training DVD's and they are totally worth the money.
ReplyDeleteThanks FernValley and anon for the link to the paint in Missouri. I've made an inquiry. I guess we will wait and see where it goes from here.
ReplyDelete@LEG: Congrats on getting Convoy home. If you went to NY, you probably went right by me...........
Ahh, the blood lines explain it - I was beginning to think that they may have been in fashion or something. (I guess they are in a way since the bloodines are the popular ones.)
ReplyDeletePallys are pretty though, they do tend to catch the eye. (and thanks for the education, my ewestern experience has been seeing about 2 cutting competitions in 30 something years!)
I have to admit, I love seeing Roxy's tongue throughout the run. I thought I saw it on the earlier video but decided it was a video artifact. Watching the WEG video you could see he was chewing and licking through most of the run.
ReplyDeleteShe's an amazing rider and I love watching her.
Just saw an ad for a group of beautiful horses, a buckskin stud and mares with foals at their heels, all bred back..The people had lost their pasture and were willing to take all offers. No mention was made of any of them even being started under saddle. They've been living Fugly's 'dream life' for horses..So what now?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKC...we only had to hop skip and jump into Illinois by about an hour...he was just a short 2 hours away from us. He is home and happy as a clam. He has been being worked and he's a complete sweetheart. He doesn't act staggish when then mares come near the fenceline. He does not challenge fences. He doesn't fuss out our long yearling stud colts. He's just a pure delight and Gillian runs a very clean, solid eventing farm. Her horses were all very well fed and happy. Everything on her property was socialized and eager to get pats on their nose. She is a proven show jumper but recovering from a freak accident in which she broke her leg the hose got twisted around her shin while she was bathing a horse and she pulled it herself causing a spiral fracture...how crazy is that?) She is kind and knowing. Shame she was fugkrieged. Once again, I believe trolling of the ads and the witch hunt yielded a quality horse person that others try to attack to make themselves feel better.
ReplyDeleteInteresting article on animal hoarding on Dick Gordon Show (NPR).
ReplyDeleteIt tell about how a supporter/volunteer/girlfriend, got snookered into being a part of rescue/hoarding operation.
What wasn't discussed (much) discussed was the mental state of the hoarder. The why behind the "How did you get there?"
A good "map" of how she got to Death Valley but no good idea of why her boyfriend/Svengali wanted to be there.
also KC, one of our student trainers made an inquiry into the paint in Imperial...he mentioned that he never got a reply and he actual bought a darling BS bay paint colt for absolutely nothing this past weekend after he couldn't get an answer. I hope you get somewhere!! And the offer to put him at our place temporarily still stands if need be :)
ReplyDeleteGeez....now we have proof the trolls reporting back to fugs....member the purple halter ad from weeks ago on here....guess who featured it. She does bash their "bad ideas" like tying to a swing set (which who knows if that was real or not...hell the ad was pure genius actually) Now here is the interesting part, she admits to googling the phone number and pulling up pics of their farm (I assume she means via google satellite) and then makes some dumbass comment about "and that the pony may be a crypt if it’s that studdy". Got news for you fugs...I have a 22 year old staggish Arabian...2 homes..the lady that bred him and gelded him at 3 yrs rode and then we have had him for the last five. He is not now nor was he ever "crypt" (Hey idiot try using the correct terminology since you have LOTS of people who don't know what you mean) He never stood a mare and he was not used as a teaser or fluffer or anything else. He was gelded, trained, shown, and then retired from the ring to be a lesson horse. He is just randy. I'm sorry for the rant but the stupidity of this woman never ceases to amaze me.
ReplyDeleteI thought at first she meant he was dead, you know like in "Tales from the Crypt"? Thr I thought he was a puzzle (a cryptogram) because he is so clearly a jumper in the making and no one seems to want him. He jumps 5' fences on his own. That's how Snowman started. Hopping fences to get to where he wanted to go. This is your chance ladies, it you really want to rescue a stellar jumper. But he won't train himself.
ReplyDeleteLEG, ALL the mares, I mean every single one of the mares LOVE a particular gelding at my boarding stable. He loves the ladies too. He was gelded at a year.
ReplyDeleteThere is an recently (with in the last year) gelded stallion at the boarding stable. He was used as a successful stud, his get did win, but not enough to compete with the big names in the saddlebred world. (Why bred to a good local stallion for a $1000.00 when you can ship semen from a distant great for nearly the same price? That was the reality for this local breeder. Her horse was good, not great.) Anyhow all the mares ignore him. He might as well paint "Derp" on his chest.
Hi, just found and love your blog.
ReplyDeleteI read Fugly off/on for several years. I was fine with her attacking BYBs and animal abusers but when she started attacking people who hadn't really done anything wrong, I decided she was a little "off". Case in point, several months back she attacked a young woman whose horse was boarded in a less-than-pristine pasture. The horse got a leg injury, it got infected, the young woman lost her job (this is the Great Recession), etc., etc. She wasn't a criminal but Fugly decided to paint her that way.
Also, I've noticed she goes off on rants that have little to do with horse breeding. A couple years ago she tilted at DHHS and said she'd once "worked for a lawyer" and "helped investigate" food stamp recipients who were using their benefits "to buy booze and cigarettes." Wow, when I was on food stamps (actually a card), I was too busy figuring out how to stretch 70 bucks groceries to cover an entire month.
This Fugly woman seems to operate inside some weird rich, upper-middle class bubble where everyone's tripping over bales of hundred dollar bills rather than struggling to feed their kids, themselves, their pets AND their horses. (I won't even mention the housing mortgage crisis and how that has forced the surrender of horses to animal rescue shelters).
And, finally, you raised the one question I've been wondering for quite a while: WHY THE HELL IS HER BUCKSKIN QH NOT GELDED?!!!
Anyhoo, thanks again. And I look forward to reading your sane blog.
The DHHS, TANF, Disability, WIC, and food stamps have always been a bug bear of Cathy's. Dog alone knows why.
ReplyDeleteShe whings that "perfectly healthy" people get Disability. Why? 'Cause they "look" healthy to her, in a photo. She can tell, she is "magical" Never mind the folks in the photo might be Schizophrenic, MR, Lupis, MS, Austistic, stroke victim, etc. Because they have a disability, they shouldn't be near a horse. (If they own one, even if they are trying to sell it, Dog help them.) Unless they can be objects of pity and get "hippo therapy" by being lead around a ring by a condescending volunteer. Who gets to pat themselves on the back for "helping" those kind of people.
Real hippo therapy is different. It's done by PT's and OT's. It is not cheap.
Client at the vet office was paralyzed in one of her arms. She brought in the horse, handled him, etc. She could function really well, but it was quite clear that arm was never coming back. Still she could do everything, just a bit modified. She took good care of her horses, and the one she brought it was as dandy as ever. He ended up having a nasty abscess that was found after shoeing. All we had to do was take the nail off and that thing shot 4 feet. Took a grand total of a day for her to bring the horse in after she saw him gimping. Month later? That horse was walking like nothing happened.
ReplyDeleteKaede: My 29 yr old brother, father of two boys 4 and 5 yrs is in the 5th year of a 5-10 yr terminal brain cancer diagnosis/prognosis. He was a former Scottish strong man and body builder. He is a dancer and used to play football. He is a wonderful artist and a phenomenal pianist. From the outside, he physically looks amazing. He can't work. He is not allowed to drive because the tumor causes violent seizures. He has to take a nap every day because the day to day task of getting up, helping get the boys ready for school and preschool and simply being alive is too much. He tires easily but still looks like something from WWE Raw. It infuriates me that people call someone like him "lazy" or accuse him of "milking the system" He got a raw deal. He's 29 and may not make it to 30. He may not see his sons reach "double digits". Sorry for the rant but I cannot stand seeing this holier than though attitude. Grrrr
ReplyDeleteCathy's attitude about people getting assistance infuriates me. It's not easy easy to get assistance.
ReplyDeleteI firmly believe that Cathy wants folks who get assistance to have their nose rubbed in it everyday. To wear shabby clothing, be humble and grateful to their "social superiors" (which we aren't suppose to have here in the USA. I DON'T curtsy to any Queen or King because I am their EQUAL. What Cathy would like to have is sumptuary laws back in place.
You Kaede you are very right! I am a cargiver. So my job is to take care of those that need it... one lady I take care of has Lupis, lung issues, Fibromyalgia (which IS a real disease by the way)and a number of other things. When you first look at her you wouldn't know she had a disability. But she is bad enough she has a part time caregiver, medicaid and handicap parking!
ReplyDeleteNot all things are visible to the naked eye