"There are tons of geldings out there with ROMS, Superiors, World champion titles, etc. and they are obviously not breeding. They lack testicles. But how in the hell can anyone think that just because a stallion earned an ROM he's going to be the next best thing since sliced bread?"
"Since QH's, and QH stallions, are a dime a dozen, chances are there is another AQHA stallion who easily outshines yours."
If you don't want to read FHOTD, 140 letters worth of gripin' and moanin' out to do it for you.
I really really wish I had known they were in Tulsa on the 5th. I could have attended quite easily and had so much to give you guys. I'm livid at myself, really.
Fair warning. This is the most unprofessional homepage for a trainer that speaks highly of themselves. Anyone remember geocities? Yeah, it's kinda like that.
The next PtHA show that is on the trainer's website is Sept. 16-19. While the site itself doesn't say where, the even more horrible website that has the information for it (though the names of the shows aren't lining up.) You can look at what other shows are being hosted by the same area here. You have been warned about the bad website. Just know that. I digress, I have no clue if BYC is showing up, but considering all the other shows he's been in, he just may be. If anyone lives in the area and wants to take a stroll on down that would be very fabulous. Better yet, if you know more about it that we do, do tell.
In case any of you missed it in the comments section, there is a 30 second preview video of BYC up. It isn't the best angles or the most perfect video, but it does hammer the nail on the mediocre coffin a little more. I also have a question to you guys...
Why are they so far out from the rail? One part they look as if they are passing, but in the other it just seems like they don't take deep corners. I was always taught to use the corners of the arena, so it's a little foreign for me to see.
If any of you also happened to miss his pedigree, you can see it here. If anyone has more knowledge of the QH lines, please leave your opinions and comments in the blog. I've only heard of Boston Mac on the most recent of family members After that it's the general, "Who hasn't heard of them?" horses who pretty much were a foundation for a lot of horses in the breed today.
His Two Oops Foals
In better news, the girl in the video throwing puppies was located. She is apparently from Bosnia, and between 4-Chan and animal groups they found her rather quickly, thankfully.
Ya Know, I think BYC would make an awesome gelding. Nuff said.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Annon 12:56... he would make a lovely gelding.
ReplyDeleteIf you go onto the VLC blog that Cathy has she states the following about the two "oops" foals
(So, for those of you who were concerned that I needed to do a “test breeding” with the VLC to see if he was worth keeping a stallion, it’s already been done and in my never-humble-opinion, the outcome was good!)
Anyways thought id throw that in there..
heres the blog address http://verylargecolt.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/the-cast-of-characters/
One thing I have noticed: you really can't judge a barn's quality from the website. I've known some very good barns that have horrible sites.
ReplyDeleteWhat I do notice about Cedar Hill that leads me to wonder about their professionalism is the lack of helmets. I would think that safety would be a major concern for a training barn. Every barn I've been in requires a helmet if you are going to ride in their arena or on their property, even when the barn owner doesn't wear a helmet when he/she is riding somewhere that doesn't require it.
The one outfitter I ride with who doesn't require a helmet includes in his release that a helmet is the rider's choice and riding without one represents increased risk.
oh that video clip of vlc in HUS was painful. Is that her trainer? I rode with her years ago and she was stricly a western rider, she joked about how she mentioned english to her parents and they said no way, they'd spent enough money on the western discipline.
ReplyDeleteIf that is Crystal it makes no sense why she's doing that horse such a tremendous diservice by riding him in HUS. Is there no young accomplished english rider that could get on him? I doubt he's so hard to handle that SHE is the only one that can ride him. Maybe she is just wanting all the glory of riding a notorious horse?
His oops babies are exactly that "oops," not impressed whatsoever.
http://www.helpingjoy.blogspot.com/ Bullwinkles site
ReplyDeleteI don't know enough about QH HUS to comment on the trainers position. Are QH HUS standards very different from "plain ol'" show ring hunter standards? Even in saddleseat we still have the straight line from bit to elbow thing. It just that with the horses head so high, the hands go up too.
ReplyDeleteCathy is now talking about weight on her current post (9-05). The under lying fallacy seems to be that an individual is completely capable of controlling their weight. Cut out the grande caramel macchiatos, the M&M and the cheetos, spend 20 minutes walking and boom, weight be gone. It isn't so easy for some of us. I have 3 daughters and one son, all with in 3 years of each other, same mom and dad. Eat the same food. Two, (like me) are inclined to put on weight. One is average and one (like her dad) could eat 6,000 calories a day and still not put on a ounce. Some of us can gain weight on a diet of 1,200 calories a day. Some of us loose weight on a 5,000 calories a day. As I've said, I'm an easy keeper. Come the famine, I'll survive.
I've only ever heard of Bullwinkle, who is the other foal? What did s/he turn out like?
ReplyDeleteLOL who put the BYC hypo foal on allbreed Pedigree?
ReplyDeletehttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VKGIEHMp6w4/TE-FTNs81jI/AAAAAAAAAyo/fQd3Ii2D-_g/s400/BW-2.JPG
ReplyDeleteand look what a 'sweet little angel' he is.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VKGIEHMp6w4/TE-FTNs81jI/AAAAAAAAAyo/fQd3Ii2D-_g/s400/BW-2.JPG
ReplyDeletehttp://helpingjoy.blogspot.com/2010/05/you-knowyoud-hold-weight-better-if-you.html
Umm, somebody look at Cathy's comment and please tell me I wasn't the only one who just read that and went, "Wait, I thought horses that far back didn't matter?"
Also added a pic of 'Cecil' (yech that name) and IMO, his face has always looked off and funny to me. Like, something is not right with it. Even cleaned up something just isn't right...
Ugh... I think that people can have SOME control over their weight. But its more about keeping yourself healthy. But I know people that keep their calories down and exercise and still struggle with their weight.
ReplyDeletethey are as kaede put it "easy keepers" or air ferns. Just as animals are easy, medium or hard keepers so are people.
The only name I recognize on the pedigree is Impressive...
ReplyDelete~Le Poulet Violet
Is it just me and my pretty-much untrained eye, or does Moose look at best as ordinary ho-hum blah as it's possible for a buckskin to look?
ReplyDeleteSorry - meant "Bullwinkle", not "Moose".
ReplyDeleteWeight is so hard to deal with. Some people can change it through diet, others exercise, others both, and even more others God knows what. Walking will maybe solve an extra couple of pounds you have assuming you do it everyday and don't take off water weight. I don't get how anyone can act like it's so simple to change their weight. Yeah an eating disorder can make it drastically change, but that's not the same thing.
ReplyDeleteFor me another issue is how much do you want your diet and exercise to dominate your life? How much do you want it to inconvenience those around you?
ReplyDeleteIf I'm invited out to a colleagues house for dinner, I shouldn't dictate what will be cooked. I can eat small portions of what ever is served, but to say "I only eat leafy green veggies, stone ground whole grain bread and lean grilled free range chicken" is really rude.
To force my coworkers/friends/family to wait while I swim fifty laps (at my age low impact exercise is a must) so I can go with them to a movie is silly.
Yes, I know these aren't everyday occurrences, but the obsessive thinking about calories in and out gets to be a habit. "Oops, I had a cupcake at wedding reception and I couldn't swim that day, so tomorrow I must swim 100 laps and eat 780 calories less!
I don't want to live like that. No one is paying me to look svelte in a swimsuit. Actresses and models are paid to look good. I'm paid to think up ways to better create, store, find and use information.
As I said in my post to Mendy on 9/6 in the previous thread to this one, I heard Fugs tell someone that the VLC did not have any "accidental" offspring and had never sired anything.
ReplyDeleteAlso, why did she spend all those thousands to take the VLC to Tulsa when he was obviously not ready, but hasn't yet paid off (I don't think) several hundred in bounced checks.
I also heard that she was telling people that the VLC won "fifth in the world" at trail. I didn't know until tonight that there were only sixth in the class.
They make it sound as if the World Show was an amazing accomplishment in and of itself.
ReplyDeleteBut.... they didn't have to QUALIFY for it, they just had to show up.
So, Wow. I could have gone, too, and been special with my colorful horse.
http://grulloquarterhorses.homestead.com/files/ANGELS_HOME_2.JPG
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fivestarranch.com/images/Carmen-buckskin.jpg
http://www.foxtrotter.com/blackhat/images/storm.JPG
http://diamondslashranch.com/Yakima%20Randy%208%20horse.jpg (and this one is a stallion. Funny, not only is there another generic buckskin out there, but this one has balls, too.)
http://www.cnrquarterhorses.com/cowboys-buttermilk.jpg (and another one!)
I think I've proven my point now. Thanks, Google.
I think fugly's point about BYC, is that it is difficult to find a 'quality' buckskin stallion that is 16.2+HH, you know, for the 'rail' class people.
ReplyDeleteI am sure that his color is eyecatching in a ring that is typically dominated by sorrels and bays in the QH circuit. Obviously, if anyone else tried to use that reasoning, fugly would call them every name in the book and 'out' them.
The buckskin color itself is not really that uncommon anymore, however, most of those horses come from a particular lines of working horses NOT show horses. There was a time when you hardly ever saw a buckskin or palomino barrel horse. When you did have one, people noticed. These days, it's nearly impossible to go to a barrel racing and not see one.
If you want to talk about BYC's bloodlines, the horse is a product of his breeding. It's not bad QH breeding. But, it isn't exactly the whos who of popular breeding today either.
ReplyDeleteThe Boston Mac's became quite popular in the late 70's and early 80's. Boston Mac himself was a Triple A race horse, a Superior Halter horse and a ROM Performance horse. He also sired horses that could do all of those things as well.
Mr. Boston Sabre-BYC's maternal grandsire earned 116 Performance points and earned a Superior in WP.
But like a good many of the Who's Who from a particular era, the Boston Macs faded from popularity. Not because they weren't good horses, but because other lines came along that could beat them...Enter the era of the Zippo Pine Bars.
You really cannot dissect the bloodlines of BYC and say that there were any really poor choices. BYC's dam, Sindy Sabre is a daughter of a successful performance horse and out of a solid line of successful using horses. Of course, everyone is familiar with King P-234, but there is also Bert, an ugly, but reknowned sire of arena horses and race horses(his dam was Lady Coolidge-a full sister to Dixie Beach, the mare that fugs bashed on for being in the BYC's pedigree). Joe Moore's Best and V's Quarter Boy, although not particularly recognizable unless you study pedigrees, both show up in a lot of good using horse's pedigrees.
YHI here: I feel I MUST respond to a couple of points here:
ReplyDelete#1 The video of Cecil: I am not sure what is going on at the canter in that video but I have seen that horse do a much prettier and breed show type canter across the field without a rider. I cannot figure out what the heck they did to his beautiful natural way of moving...???
#2 The Breeding for Halter Horses Post that featured my horses:
Let me start this discussion by saying I agree that a horse that can ONLY do halter is a ridiculous waste. I have never raised purely halter horses. I have always wanted to raise beautiful horses that can also ride. I specifically chose breeding animals that came from families that do BOTH. I dislike the over done crippled halter horse as much as I dislike the 14 hand 850# cutter, or a 17 hand 11/12ths TB HUS. To me an AQHA horse should be a medium to heavily muscled horse that has good bone, a big hip and shoulder, the worlds finest disposition, and a smooth athletic ride.
I am one person who fell in love with the quarter horse when it was the highest honor to win an AQHA Championship. I have always tried to re-create that in the industry. KLR Reflection, VLC's sire was badly injured as a youngster and it ultimately led to his demise at only 18. But his immediate family is absolutely filled with AQHA Champions and I have no doubt he would have made one had he not been crippled in a hind leg as a yearling. He was an incredibly kind, gentle, cooperative, affectionate animal. He sired the same in all of his offspring, along with a wonderful set to the shoulder, deep heart girth, good bone, big thick hooves, and good size. He was bred by the Canadian business partner to Loree QH and many of his full sisters traveled south to the Loree ranch as broodmares.
continued.....
I thought it would be fun to have you take a little quiz on the four mares pictured on that site because the were referred to as:
ReplyDelete"mare after mare, all alike" "It's like they were cut from cookie-cutters. All possible cousins of some Belgian Blue bull, with the heavy heavy muscling that serves no purpose (on a QH anyways, obviously on the bull it serves a purpose, lol). Heavily muscled horses on pencil-thin legs with no stifle to speak of, paired with tiny hooves. "
Interesting statements, as none of those mares are closely related.
Lets have fun here: look at the photos and number the mares 1-4 with the black mare #1 and the palomino mare #4
Here is the quiz, pick a mare for each answer:
#1 Only one of those mares can trace to Impressive.
#2 Two of those mares were bred for cutting, barrels and roping.
#3 One of those mares is the dam to this terribly "un-athletic" half sister (same sire) to VLC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI3siCO0iEg (hint: the dam to this filly is also the one that traces to Impressive)
#4 One of those mares has 2 ROMs and is 7 points off two more.
#5 How many of those mares wear size 1 or larger shoes?
#6 One of these mares has a daughter that produced the reserve world champion youth APHA yearling filly in 2008.
#7 One of those mares is so gentle and kind and still sound at age 20 that any little child can ride her anywhere.
#8 One of those mares is a record holder for producing 3 weanling filies that won the Triple Crown Paint futurity, one of the largest horse shows on the West Coast, and one of those daughters came back and won the western pleasure as a two yr old at the same show.
#9 One of those mare's sire was at Berton QH.
#10 One of those mares grand dams was a World Champion halter horse.
#11 One of those mare's dam's is by a AAA race horse.
#12 Two of those mares are very closely related on the dam's side to this horse:
Hicapoo,
Details
* October 14th Dispersal Sale - Lot 42 - Sells with ET by Dual Rey for 2011
* 1994 NCHA Horse of the Year
* 2000 NCHA Non-Pro World CHAMPION
* 13 Aged Event Championships - 19-Time Major Aged Event Finalist
* Dam of Capoo - 1999 NCHA Futurity Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* Dam of SDP Hicapoo's CD - 2006 NCHA Derby Non-Pro CHAMPION
* Her 2 producing daughters first foals have both won major aged events at the highest levels - Earning to date (11/6/09) an amazing $1,203,643!!
* She is unquestionably one of the greatest show horses in NCHA history
Career Stats
* 1993 NCHA Futurity Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* 1994 Augusta Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 Georgia National Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 Chisholm Trail Derby Open Finalist
* 1994 Bonanza Derby Open Finalist - 7th Place
* 1994 NCHA Super Stakes Derby Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1994 Glen Rose Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 NCHA Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 Steamboat Springs Derby Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1994 El Cid Derby Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1994 Abilene Western Cutting Derby Open Finalist - 6th Place
* 1994 NCHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
* 1995 Chisholm Trail Classic Open CHAMPION
* 1995 NCHA Super Stakes Classic Open CHAMPION
* 1995 NCHA Derby Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1995 Abilene Western Cutting Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1996 Augusta Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1996 Bonanza Classic Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* 1996 NCHA Super Stakes Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1996 Steamboat Springs Classic Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* 2000 NCHA Non-Pro World CHAMPION
Ok lets see who can get the highest score here and I will later post pedigrees to the mares posted.
I thought it would be fun to have you take a little quiz on the four mares pictured on that site because the were referred to as:
ReplyDelete"mare after mare, all alike" "It's like they were cut from cookie-cutters. All possible cousins of some Belgian Blue bull, with the heavy heavy muscling that serves no purpose (on a QH anyways, obviously on the bull it serves a purpose, lol). Heavily muscled horses on pencil-thin legs with no stifle to speak of, paired with tiny hooves. "
Interesting statements, as none of those mares are closely related.
Lets have fun here: look at the photos and number the mares 1-4 with the black mare #1 and the palomino mare #4
Here is the quiz, pick a mare for each answer:
#1 Only one of those mares can trace to Impressive.
#2 Two of those mares were bred for cutting, barrels and roping.
#3 One of those mares is the dam to this terribly "un-athletic" half sister (same sire) to VLC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI3siCO0iEg (hint: the dam to this filly is also the one that traces to Impressive)
#4 One of those mares has 2 ROMs and is 7 points off two more.
#5 How many of those mares wear size 1 or larger shoes?
#6 One of these mares has a daughter that produced the reserve world champion youth APHA yearling filly in 2008.
#7 One of those mares is so gentle and kind and still sound at age 20 that any little child can ride her anywhere.
#8 One of those mares is a record holder for producing 3 weanling filies that won the Triple Crown Paint futurity, one of the largest horse shows on the West Coast, and one of those daughters came back and won the western pleasure as a two yr old at the same show.
#9 One of those mare's sire was at Berton QH.
#10 One of those mares grand dams was a World Champion halter horse.
#11 One of those mare's dam's is by a AAA race horse.
#12 Two of those mares are very closely related on the dam's side to this horse:
Hicapoo, Details
* October 14th Dispersal Sale - Lot 42 - Sells with ET by Dual Rey for 2011
* 1994 NCHA Horse of the Year
* 2000 NCHA Non-Pro World CHAMPION
* 13 Aged Event Championships - 19-Time Major Aged Event Finalist
* Dam of Capoo - 1999 NCHA Futurity Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* Dam of SDP Hicapoo's CD - 2006 NCHA Derby Non-Pro CHAMPION
* Her 2 producing daughters first foals have both won major aged events at the highest levels - Earning to date (11/6/09) an amazing $1,203,643!!
* She is unquestionably one of the greatest show horses in NCHA history
Career Stats
* 1993 NCHA Futurity Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* 1994 Augusta Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 Georgia National Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 Chisholm Trail Derby Open Finalist
* 1994 Bonanza Derby Open Finalist - 7th Place
* 1994 NCHA Super Stakes Derby Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1994 Glen Rose Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 NCHA Derby Open CHAMPION
* 1994 Steamboat Springs Derby Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1994 El Cid Derby Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1994 Abilene Western Cutting Derby Open Finalist - 6th Place
* 1994 NCHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
* 1995 Chisholm Trail Classic Open CHAMPION
* 1995 NCHA Super Stakes Classic Open CHAMPION
* 1995 NCHA Derby Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1995 Abilene Western Cutting Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1996 Augusta Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1996 Bonanza Classic Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* 1996 NCHA Super Stakes Classic Open Reserve CHAMPION
* 1996 Steamboat Springs Classic Open Finalist - 3rd Place
* 2000 NCHA Non-Pro World CHAMPION
Ok lets see who can get the highest score here and I will later post pedigrees to the mares posted.
Brown Eyed Cowgirl, I do not think that the Zippo horses pushed out the Boston Mac horses so much as the BM MARES continued the line instead of the stallions, and of course we all know the spotlight is never on mares...
ReplyDeleteI personally do not care for Zippo bred horses AT ALL. Blech! I dislike their way of going, I dislike the way they look, and I dislike their dispositions. All the ones I have been around were a bit snotty. But Im sure there are good ones out there.
YHI
Hey guys sorry for posting that last part a few times, my computer said it was not posted!! Please disregard the second and THIRD ones! LOL
ReplyDeleteYHI
The top of BYC's pedigree is also pretty consistent with the older style of 'show' horse.
ReplyDeleteKLR Reflection-BYC's sire, is the product of a purposeful breeding program. As far as halter-bred stallions go, I rather like BYC's sire. There was a lot of good stuff in his pedigree. Jag On(by Jaguar), Kilobar(by King Leo Bar), Page Lee(2Xs)-Yet another cross to the Lady Coolidge line. Actually a double cross because Page Lee's sire and dam were 1/2 brother and sister-out of Lady Coolidge.
There was of course also Whim and Impressive Sheik. Whim, being an old-style halter/show horse and Impressive Sheik, a son of Impressive from back when they actually rode those darn horses. 'In the beginning' Impressive's could ride and people did ride a lot of them, but like so many other bloodlines of that era, the 'ride' was bred out of them as what was winning in the riding classes changed. They could still win in the Halter classes and before long, voila...we ended up with the current abomination see today.
It happened to more than just the Impressive's. It hit the Otoe's, the Boston Mac's, the Coy Bonanza's...so many good lines of those days faded in popularity, mostly due to the specialization that started to take place.
Sorry, YHI again, I wanted to comment on VLC's two foals. I would have NEVER chosen those two mares to breed him to. Neither one is a compliment pedigree or conformation wise to the horse.
ReplyDeleteBoth are pretty mares in their own right, but neither is something I would have chosen to breed him to. I would breed VLC to some nice TB's or WP type AQHA mares if I was going to use him as a sire.
YHI here again, sorry I'm so chatty today...:-)
ReplyDeleteBrown Eyed Cowgirl said: "It happened to more than just the Impressive's. It hit the Otoe's, the Boston Mac's, the Coy Bonanza's...so many good lines of those days faded in popularity, mostly due to the specialization that started to take place."
I could not agree more. The specialization of the quarter horse is the worst thing to happen to the breed!
YHI: That's the type of thing I expect to hear from a breeder. Deep knowledge of a pedigree including the faults and high points of the lines that go back.
ReplyDeleteThat's information I never hear from Fugs about what she wants to do with BYC. There's no knowledge of what mares he'd cross well on, and what his strengths as a sire are. Couple that with her years of ranting about crazy color breeders that only breed 'cause he's purty! and it's just ... WTF woman? You have become what you yell about.
Honestly, one more stud with balls isn't going to make any real difference particularly given how little I suspect he's going to breed. I've also never had a huge stake in "only horses recognized in the ring with all these champions are worthy of breeding." There are good breeding programs that don't involve high level campaigning. And that, IMO, is OK. Judges are no more or less barn blind than anyone else (they shouldn't be, but they are and well...)
Anyway, I hope YHI you don't take my criticism of BYC as criticism of your breeding program. It sounds like you have a vision and are (were?) creating sound animals that meet that vision. (Also, I think bullwinkle is kinda cute, but I"m a sucker for a goofy face)
This is a bit off topic... Has anyone ever heard of an Appaloosa Heart or Hart ?? Someone I know went on a trail ride the other day at a barn that I would have never gone to just from hearing other peoples bad stories, and the owner told this person that the horse he was riding as an Appaloosa Heart... He asked the owner to say the breed again because he had heard of Appy's but not the heart part and he said it's an Appaloosa Heart, not an Appy... Just some stupid person or a real breed?
ReplyDelete~Le Poulet Violet
Fiona-"One more stud with balls isn't going to make any real difference particularly given how little I suspect he's going to breed."
ReplyDeleteThat is the truth of it. I have seen far worse stallions campaigned to Championships and points and accolades and the market accepts those horses.
The fact is, if the horse is not breeding, who gives a rat's butt if he has his nuts or not?
Fugs does not have the funds to turn the horse into what she constitutes 'breeding worthy'. No matter which way you slice it, it costs a ton of $$ to either; haul to and pay entries at the big shows or haul to a myriad of smaller shows to garner the points. I'm not sure that fug's current trainer has that level of experience either. I'm sure she is plenty willing to try as long as fugs is footing the bill. Duhhh!!! What trainer who wants to make a name for themselves is going to turn down that opportunity?
The crux of the controversy around the VLC has more to do with fugly's hypocracy than the horse.
BEC - you've hit it. If BYC belonged to anyone other than Fugly or one of her friends, she would have long since thrown that person to her pack of online attack dogs.
ReplyDeleteAs someone not at all into showing, I'd love to see what he could do as a trail horse. I know at least one outfitter who breeds their own stock. The first criteria for being used as breeding stock is performance on the trail. After a couple of foals are on the ground out of a particular mare or by a stallion they'd not used before, they decide if they'll continue to use that stallion or mare for breeding and go from there. I doubt that more than one in 20 of their horses ever even sees a show ring.
I am very happy that FHOTD has a stallion and is trying to promote him. I think she will learn something from the process. She will learn its not as easy as she thinks it is, that the road to success is fraught with perils, and that being a loud mouth know it all makes far more true enemies than true friends.
ReplyDeleteYHI here, ok if any of you care the mares on the breeding halter horses posts are:
ReplyDelete#1 black mare is Midnight Hussy.
#2 Etta Success
#3 Justa Dot Onthe Page
#4 And I'm worth it
All of these mares are listed on allbreedpedigree.
The quiz answers are:
#1 is mare #3
#2 Mares # 1 and 2 were bred for ranch work.
#3 the dam to the jumping filly is #3
#4 This is mare #4 and she has not proven herself to be an outstanding producer, quite mediocre actually
#5 Mares 1 and 2 wear a size 1 shoe and mare 4 wears a 3!!! no teeny feet on any of them.
#6 mare 2 Etta Success
#7 mare 1 who is 20 and still sound. The worlds most quiet horse. We LOVE her.
#8 Again mare 1
#9 Grace Berton owned mare 4's sire Imperial Snips
#10 Mare 2's sire was out of World Champion mare Opie's Pride
#11 is mare 4. Mr Three Devils had a speed index of 99
#12 is mares 1 and 2,
Oh and if anyone wants to know, I am not breeding horses on any kind of scale any more. I have 1 and maybe two mares in foal for next year, coincidentally mares 1 and 2 from this "test". I bred them because they are old and left the younger mares open or leased them out.
Holy downhill, Batman! That video does Atkinson no favors. And his canter looks off--maybe it's the old stifle injury coming back to haunt him? Or maybe the rider just needs to get him to use his back end a little bit? He looks like a strung-out wiener dog running around the arena. I have the same kind of strung-out problem with my long-backed QH, but I use my seat and hands to ask him to CARRY himself and to put his hind end underneath himself and move into the bridle.
ReplyDeleteI just skimmed over the 'Weight' post by Cathy. It read like a bad self help tape or infomercial targeting the weak minded or those who have exhausted every last hope. It's like that gadget that somebody made to keep the fizz in those liter pop bottles...how much more can you squeeze out of people? It was a pretty ignorant post, to say the least. Nothing I haven't seen rambled by every other person not educated on the subject.
ReplyDeleteAnon 1:59, the day she actually learns something is the day this blog shuts down. I think it's safe to say we'll be around for awhile.
YHI: I mainly pointed to that article to describe BYC for the most part, not so much your old breeding program. I think a lot of all rounders are lost in the shuffle as they get stuck doing one thing for people. I don't know many people who pick up any horse now and do multiple things with them.
I also have no clue what she did to his movement, but she definitely put it somewhere he can't use it. She's made him a part of the shuffle, that's for sure. It also isn't helping her in any way with him. It's basically making use want him gelded more.
---
I can see Cathy getting desperate to breed him in an effort to show everyone how awesome a sire he is. It's contradictory to her sermon, so you know she'll do it. There will be a post justifying it, and how she can do it because she's 'informed' or some nonsense, and then she'll somehow keep them forever to continue the cycle she has started.
BYC has two foals (now horses) on the ground, true they weren't ideal for him to cross with, but what will be ideal for him to cross with? Could/would Cathy be able to afford a good mare? One that cost upward of 10 grand? You know the kind with good conformation, a solid show record, sound and sane? Maybe even a ROM; if what is necessary for the gander is necessary for the goose? Is going to have the "private treaty" or "select mares" on his ads? What will she choose as good criteria? What do you all think will be good criteria?
ReplyDeleteI have nothing against YHI or her breeding program. I want to make that clear. I believe she sold BYC as an unbroken 3yr old, or at least I saw Cathy say that somewhere. At any rate, way to go for getting 5K for him, because I do believe that was way high. My issue with him now and probably why he doesn't travel well is his hind end. He's horribly put together behind. Way too straight in the hocks, appears base narrow, and his stifle is not right either. Even if he wanted to and had a decent trainer, BYC could never travel pretty or correct due to how he's put together. He's also built downhill. A low head carriage isn't really all there is to a proper set for HUS or WP. There needs to be some roundness and collection through the body and his nose needs to come in. BYC seems to poke his nose out there and have no real head set. What I will say for the horse is, by all accounts, he is very nice minded. Just the sort of thing that really would make him a lovely gelding and enjoyable mount for Cathy. I find it highly doubtful that BYC will ever get an AQHA ROM and may be very hard pressed to get a point. Cathy would need to spend way more money than she is now and send him to a name brand trainer that could buy a couple of points based on presentation and reputation. As a coming 6yr old, I would say his window of opportunity is all but slammed shut....
ReplyDeleteWith all the negative attention on BYC, I'm thinking Cathy's trainer may eventually dump her. I'm sure she's a nice lady, but she is not a top flight show rider and she's in way over her head with QHs apparently. Can anybody tell me what the point is in showing BYC in Pinto Shows, Arabian Horse Club shows, and open non-sanctioned shows? Cathy is paying to make this stallion and all they are doing is sneaking around in all these obscure circuits. I can't wait to see the print advertising that comes out if she sends him to stud!
lolasl
I honestly would hate to do a critique of the VLC/BYC based on any of the photos I have seen . For the same reason I often disagree with Fugly's wild attacks on other horses. One moment in time , not seeing the horse standing in a "conformation "type shot of moving freely at liberty . THe under saddle pics I have seen are limiting in that Cathy's riding is not terrific, and she is I believe incabable of getting that big guys "motor" under hime where it needs to be to get him rounded up and moving nicely.She is perched up there like she is ready to be catapulted off, and that translates to the horse. The trainers viseo ,doesn't look great either but agin "Pilot error" can very strongly affect the way a horse moves. As we all have said before , the biggest limiting factor for this horse is Cathy
ReplyDeleteOr moving freely , at liberty ! Typo queen out.
ReplyDeleteAny young horse is a gamble. What looks nice as a foal, yearling or two year old may not prove itself as it grows up.
ReplyDeleteIn SBA many horses win in halter or futurity but that doesn't mean a win at Louisville in the Park class. Winning as a young horse doesn't mean winning as an older horse.
I agree with FV, we need more un-edited videos of him moving at liberty, and with a really excellent rider who can make the most out of what he has got.
In theory the horse is suppose to go from halter to driving to under saddle. What division depends on the horse.
One horse I'm familiar with won everything in sight up to age 4. Now he is a no show in the ribbons. Go figure. BYC could have had lots of potential as a young horse. But potential doesn't always prove out. It happens.
Loasl, YHI here: VLC is NOT built downhill at all. He is actually higher at the wither than the hip. He is also NOT base narrow. I honestly do not know what you are basing that on, Cathy is completely incapable of taking a good photo of him, and I have only yearling photos...
ReplyDeleteThank you for these links. Cathy's double standard continues! First, BYC's son is a conformational nightmare. Wasn't Cathy's opinon that he was a good one? Ick.
ReplyDeleteAlso, reading through the blog of the lady that has Bullwinkle, reveals a lot of other interesting things. First, Cathy seems to be tied up with the Exceller Fund and reccomended that they fund that lady to retire one of their horses. Also, Cathy's rescue mare Lucy was there and Cathy had sunk quite a bit of money into training her. This would be the same mare Cathy claimed to be training herself. Also her BGY (big gold yearling) lives on that farm and has turned into a bunch of fugly as well. Not to mention ribby and wormy looking in most of his pics.
MOST interesting is the fact that the blog owner got tossed off her horse and 1) threatened to get rid of her and 2) thought she should just give up riding her and breed her instead.
Did she not basically attempt to ruin Leland's life for joking about nearly the same thing on his private page? Oh except Leland never bred his horse....Here is the link to those offending posts...scroll down to the April 21st entry http://helpingjoy.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-04-27T09%3A22%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=5
I think something very much stinks about the Exceller Fund sponsoring a horse to live out his years at her friend's place based on Cathy's reccomendation. I especially think it stinks considering this seems to be the place Cathy stockpiles quite a few of her horses, appears to be a nice enough place and we know Cathy as a former Pet store cage cleaner, isn't exactly raking in six figures. Something funny is going on here and since I have some TB connections adn will be in Lexington where the fund is based out of, I may ask some questions.
Even better, when the person expressed concern for the palomino colt's lack of weight gain and blogged about getting his teeth looked at (I guess he's a 3yr old now) here was Cathy's own response...let's remember how Leland got savaged for having ribs showing on a mare that had just given birth 2hrs prior....
"fuglyhorseoftheday said...
Yeah, we'll do his teeth but I am really not too concerned about a little ribby. He is still growing and growing fast from all reports. A little ribby is better than OCD and who knows what else from overfeeding. I think you're doing fine with him!"
Actually, reading through this blog pretty much shows this woman does do rescue and the poor thing things Cathy is her great friend and authority. Seems Cathy is getting a great deal on dumping/boarding her horses here. Can't wait until it all blows up....
lolasl
YHI, you admit you haven't seen BYC for some time now. He may have been more balanced as a young horse, but he is downhill now. That raw video clip pretty much tells the tail. Look at him move from behind, he's very narrow and straight. This isn't a personal slam on you or your breeding program. You can breed two world champions together and get a dink for a baby. Horses grow up funny. We know BYC has been injured and/or lames at least three or four times since Cathy has owned him and its always been hind end lameness. Watching him move and seeing several pics of him, both good and bad, I am not surprised this horse comes up sore behind when he's pushed too much. You need to ask yourself, if this was a plain bay or chesnut with no white, would anything about this horse catch your eye? For me, the answer is no. He's doesn't move flat kneed and floaty like a true HUS or WP horse needs to and the drags his hind end. He doesn't have `presence' to me.
ReplyDeletelolasl
re: Fugly Cathy's tweet "They caught that rotten little bitch who threw the puppies in the river! Good job!!!"
ReplyDeleteThere has to be something wrong with a person who would drown puppies and have it on video. But the solution to people with mental or moral problems is not calling them bitches or having throngs of people stone them, literally or figuratively. Can we get out of the 8th century, please? We can be sure that Fugly Cathy is on the low road. The only way out of this kind of a mess is education and getting help to people with real problems. And maybe spending donor money on free spay/neuter clinics instead of warehousing vicious dogs for life (some life!).
-k
YHI here: I saw VLC last summer at his trainers barn. He is not downhill and he is not base narrow. He may be sore in the hind end and be guarding himself by moving that way, but he is not built that way.
ReplyDeleteI really wish that we could get some real confo shots of BYC. You don't have to pay a pro to do it as long as you know how they should be properly set-up, which, incidentally, Fugly claims to know how.
ReplyDeleteThat would put to rest any issues about his confo.
I have a feeling that I am doomed to disappointment on that wish though!
I agree with Fern and others, at least as far as him going under english tack, Cathy herself couldn't be competitive in a beginner eq class in a barn show, and I am afraid that his trainer is doing him a disservice as well.
A rider who does not really know how to ride a given discipline can make even a very nice horse look bad.
This is my opinion of the trainer under english tack, I would never critique her under western tack because that is not what I know. I just think she looks uncomfortable in an english saddle, not that anything is glaringly bad, just looks uncomfortable, which would keep her from being able to effectively "ride" BYC and WILL communicate to him.
JMO!
YHI, there is a three quarter hind shot of BYC on one of these links. (I believe the blog that has Bullwinkle on it). Go ahead and take a very close look at it and objectively tell that horse isn't way narrow behind. It doesn't help that his tail is set too high as well, but he is, in fact, built to have just the sort of problems he is having. It is NOT a slam on you or your breeding program. This is an opinion on one horse. If he had a hammer head and was bay, people would think he is gross. We all have a bit of barn blindness when it comes to our own I guess....He does stand downhill as numerous side shots of her with and without tack shows.
ReplyDeletelolasl
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/Shellythehorsenut/?action=view¤t=July2006076.jpg
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how to link Photobucket pics to this format but this is a photo of VLC from straight behind as a yearling.
YHI
Val, I just got to reading her newest post. Gag. I've never seen such two faced writing in my life. Well, I have, just with her...He won a blue ribbon in a schooling show against green horses? He's 5, he better damn well walk away the winner. If he's been worked on since 3/4, he really isn't so green now, is he?
ReplyDeleteAnd no ribbons at schooling shows? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Lolasl
ReplyDeleteStanding with his head down and loping with his head down does not make him built downhill. His withers are higher than hip. If you can prove something different, please link me to the evidence, because I am the ONLY person here who has seen this horse in person and I can attest that he is not built downhill. And no I am not being barn blind, or worried about someone slamming my breeding program or anything else. I can tell when a horse is downhill, and this one is not. For crying outloud I have been breeding horses since 1985, and if I was worried about people and their opinions of the stock I produced I would have quit long ago. Please remember that I have been breeding all around horses in an age of specialty and I have been slammed for that for years. Believe me I can "take it" when it comes to criticism. I never said he was perfect or the world gift to horsedom, Cathy is free to geld him, or even EAT him if she wants to. He was sold with no held breedings or anything else. He is her horse lock stock and barrel.
YHI
Hate to do this to you YHI, but the proof is in the photos. The hind shot you linked of BYC shows exactly how base-narrow he is. Just because his toes don't touch doesn't mean he isn't narrow. I've drawn guidelines over the pictures to show you. In the first picture, a horse that stands completely square should have a straight line from the point of buttocks down to the center of the hoof. In this case, that line falls far to the outside of each foot.
ReplyDeletehttp://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o78/brillianteraser/BaseNarrowVLC.jpg
For comparison, I drew a line from the center of his hooves up, showing that they land on either side of the tailhead, meaning that he does actually have a base-narrow stance.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o78/brillianteraser/BaseNarrowVLC2.jpg
How old was he in the side-shot pictures you have following (in your album)? He is very downhill there, but I suppose he is young, and butt-high due to that.
As I said before, until I see current confo shots I withhold judgment(all the shots I have seen have either been poorly done or as a yearling). Also all things considered he is a decent sort of horse as far as I can tell , the biggest limmiting factor for this horse is his owner
ReplyDeleteHe is 14 months old in the photos in my photo bucket album..
ReplyDeleteYHI
I just did an exhaustive research on "Base Narrow" and it is only used to define front leg conformation, not hind leg conformation.
ReplyDeleteYHI, the very pictures you linked show a very downhill BYC as a young horse. Then go to the facebook page of her trainer....there is a pic of him going western and he is very bum high. I do know where the withers are and his head position has nothing to do with a downhill build. I have had the good fortune to work for some pretty big name trainers and as a result have sat on more than one AQHA world champion as well as two Appy World Champs in my misspent youth. I'm not trying to pull rank, but I kinda know this stuff pretty well. But we'll agree to disagree on this because its really not worth fighting over. That's why you haul to different shows. Different judges pick out different things...balance and hind ends are `my thing' I pick at.
ReplyDeleteOn an unrelated note. I see on her trainer's web page that one of Cathy's rescue horses is for sale with 60 days professional training under it. The TB mare Exclusive Report. I thought that rescues were supposed to go to approved homes only and not get shined up to flip for a profit. WTF?
lolasl
lolasl You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I too could not find the description of base narrow to apply to hind end conformation on any conformation site. Until you can show me a profile photo of the horse with his withers below the level of his hip I'm going to have to say you are mistaken on calling him downhill. Looking at photos of a 14 month old colt are not proof of a permanent downhill build. 99% of all youngsters go through butt high phases.
ReplyDeleteYHI
http://www.cedarhilltraining.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=12745520
ReplyDeleteWhen did this headset become acceptable?
YHI
ReplyDeleteHere is a 3/4 hind shot...narrow behind, appears downhill
http://verylargecolt.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/cecil42009a.jpg?w=300
As has been said, there aren't a lot pics of him out there. His video clip shows a very downhill horse, to me. The facebook pic of him under tack and his pedigree query pic both show withers lower than the highest point of his hip. I'm aware young horses are not as balanced, but he is now 5 and the pictures I just mentioned are from this year.
lolasl
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ub1oYBFF7s/SCfX4YzwOQI/AAAAAAAAACA/MWOnVo1Oapg/s400/cecil8thride1.jpg
ReplyDeleteBum high...
I do not how you can surmise anything from that photo. Its tiny and at a very odd angle, and you actually cannot see his withers for all that horrible thick mane Cathy was incapable of caring for.
ReplyDeleteAgain Lolasl you and I can disagree politely on this one.
Anonymous 12:36 AGAIN you cannot see the withers on the horse. Until there is a "naked" PROFILE photo you cannot call the horse downhill.
ReplyDeleteYHI
Personally, I really think, until there are current, correct confo photos of BYC, all of this back and forth is getting no where and truly serves no purpose.
ReplyDeleteI also want to say, after reading the "weight" thread on FHOTD, I really didn't think fugs was all that bad. Many of the commentors were very upfront and had some helpful suggestions. I realize that this is an anomaly, but hey, gotta appreciate it when it happens.
I think he looks downhill, but it's very possible that is an optical illusion from the total crap photos she's posted.
ReplyDeleteI remember many moons ago she worried about posting training photos wondering if people would use the training photos instead of the professional ones she was planning on having done. Oddly, what we have are training (or blurry show photos) phots and no decent conformation shots (despite her insistence that it's not rocket science to take decent photos).
OTOH, I'm not a QH girl so what do I know?
Please, let's not become Fugly ourselves over her horse. I'm sure a lack of interest in breeding to him will put an end to her delusions of stalliony grandeur. It doesn't seem like many of her minions (who might want to get 'close' to her, ewwwww!) are horse owners anyway, and others are kids who wouldn't have the wherewithal to breed.
ReplyDeleteApplause for anon 1:23.
ReplyDeleteLittle obsessed much with VLC, are we?
Yes, it's incredibly annoying when Cathy rips apart other stallions for many of the same (apparent) faults and lack of worthiness in her own.
However...I refuse to stoop to her level of witch-hunt obsession.
So, on that note, I'll echo what FV says. VLC is cute, he looks like a decent sort, and unless looking at good confo pics or in person, seems ridiculous to obsess about the horse. Unless, of course, we want to play "Fugly!"
If anyone has read the VLC blog lately, you'll realize that the ROM is never going to happen, and that it's all just an expensive dream. It basically boils down to her saying maybe they'll hit up some AQHA shows.
ReplyDeleteBasically, that's confirmation that he's a gelding in waiting. We all can see that. It's just a matter of waiting now.
As for whether he is up, down, side to side, it's a moot point. We can see where he is heading and what is going to happen, So no need to argue over it.
Bullwinkle's blog has a comment by Cathy saying she planned to stand him in 2011. Bullwinkle's owner also points out which mares she is going to breed to him...they aren't `quality' as far as I'm concerned. The poor woman seems to have a nice farm and is a dumping ground for fugly's herd.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is it is her stallion to do whatever with. The double standard bothers me though. I'm thinking she won't be writing too many blogs on breeding unaccomplished stock any time soon?
lolasl
lolasl where is this post?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3283889904866601329&postID=4830589610842439852
ReplyDeleteYou can see in the comments where the blogger says she plans to breed to BYC and where Cathy mentions standing him in 2011 should he `earn the right'. I'm going to lay money that she will breed this horse no matter what. She just may keep it on the quiet if she does....
Please define ROM...I am new to horses and would like a definition
ReplyDeleteTotally off topic...we are having a gelding party at the end of this month...we have 2 lovely qhs...one is a Christmas present for a friend's son since I gave their other son one for his bday and the other is a very nice, correct 4 yr old stud but he came to us staggish and he needs those nuts lobbed. Anyone want to come to the festivities?? LOL <3Mendy
ReplyDeleteIt means he has to win 10 AQHA points assuming she's wanting to get a performance ROM. If she wants a halter ROM on him he has to win them in halter, which I would think is not possible given how he is put together. Obviously a racing ROM isn't on the table either. For a performance ROM it would be a general one unless he got at least 5 points in a specific event ie HUS. Its really a nothing award and certainly not something to deem a horse worth of breeding. Personally I wouldn't look twice at a horse unless they had at least one Superior or an AQHA championship.
ReplyDeleteOk so this is for fun too
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWDe8tT4h8
Convinced her not to hide from Fugs but challenge her....screw producing a horse that can stand on it own...how about some kids :)
~Dev's Adv
Does ROM mean something in particular or is it just so people know...well if you show in a non-ROM class you don't get points, etc
ReplyDeleteHey Dev's: I did it. I am officially following now. And, I even stuck Evie's pic on there.
ReplyDeleteNo, ROM means `Register of Merit'. You can get points in any class with over 5 horses in it. Points are based on how many horses in the class. More horses = more points. They don't have specific ROM classes. But you do have to show at an AQHA sanctioned show to get points. So, showing BYC at pinto shows, schooling shows and buckskin shows is never going to get him a point.
ReplyDeleteGood going all. I believe the site is making an impact! Regarding Texas Chili, I believe the former owner/trainer was encouraged to make a contribution to his care even though he rehomed him sound to the polo people. Texas Chili is a very nice horse. All class. Unfortuately, he is not sound, and I was under the impression the former owner wanted him examined to see if it was in the horse's best interest to keep him going. Don't know what happened with that.
ReplyDeleteHere is the video of Big yellow caddi being shown, just a little preview. The loping so much on the forehand makes me CRINGE but I am a dressage trainer so maybe this is ok in AQHA?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jc-video.com/pop/index_flv.cfm?video_id=2332
Ok I do see the downward slope everyone is talking about however what I noticed more than anything is a slight, almost hitch, in the hind quarters. At our ranch, we have a mare who is "off" occasionally in her hindquarters (left which looks in this video to be almost identical to the way the mare moves) giving a very similar "way of going". Owner's vet cannot figure out why but she has this tiny hitch with then makes her look like she's going very much in the forehand. When he is standing still again he looks very hip high. Visual this horse as a typical sorrel or a black and watch him move, removing the "color factor". The video clip is not long enough to really show how this horse moves. I know there's been lots of chatter about ROM and breeding but perhaps rather than worry about all that, let the motion of the horse speak for itself. If I were looking at this horse to purchase or as a stud, I'd like to see some serious video: at liberty in the field and in an arena, lounged without tack, lounged with tack and finally under saddle at the walk, jog, extended trot and the lope/canter. Despite points, ROM, offspring, etc, if the horse is not put together, decently it can only go so far. We took a 4h group to a judging clinic last winter and the instructor showed 5 saddlebreds both in hand and under saddle, she pointed out conformational faults which affect movement and then had the rider move the horse in a way to really show off those faults. Nicest moving horse was a pretty "ugly" thing, no papers to speak of, scars from a trailer accident, and just a plain old sorrel with no white. He was grace, poetry, and beauty though when he moved. So again, take away the color on BYC & see if you would buy him as your show mount. ~Mendy
ReplyDeleteBEC said: "The crux of the controversy around the VLC has more to do with fugly's hypocracy than the horse. "
ReplyDeleteAMEN!!!
YHI here, I agree that the controversy about the horse is really about Cathy and her hypocrisy. I also KNOW FOR A FACT since I am the only person who has actually SEEN this horse in person and not from some dark grainy photo taken at an odd angle, or a saddled photo, that the horse definitely level withers to hip.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that because they have allowed movement that is heavy on the forehand that he LOOKS downhill...
Again, I have seen this horse move better loose in the pasture! I'm not sure what the heck they did to his lope....
His build doesn't really allow him to get under himself and I'm referring to the straight hocks which are clearly visible in all his pics. He could still move better if they had him rounder through the body and brought his head up and in a few inches. The trainer is making a very common rookie mistake of thinking that they just have to get that head low as possible without understanding the mechanics of a proper `frame' and collection. The horses that are winning at the world level do `peanut roll' a bit too much for my taste but they are travelling round and under themselves. They will all lope/canter with flat knees and `float'. You pretty much can't win without a great lope/canter and you can't train that into a horse. BYC doesn't seem to have that. Perhaps his hind end lameness issues stem from them trying to get him working under himself more. I'm just guessing though. He does look like he is kind and really would make a nice `pleasure' horse as far as a fun horse to have to trail ride and dink arounda few small scale schooling shows. From the multiple pictures of Bullwinkle, it appears he is passing his bad hind end on and that alone should mean he shouldn't be a stallion.
ReplyDeleteAs a dressage rider that is currently turning a lovely QH into my dressage mount I can tell you that it takes an extremee amount of proper training and conditioning to get a horse from being heavy on its forehand when it hasn't been worked in the proper way. So in BYC's defense that could very well be all his issue is.
ReplyDeleteYHI:
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me almost of the very unnatural exaggerated slow "peanut rolling" lope that was all the rage years ago. As I have said repeatedly we don't show on a professional or points level in any association or particular discipline so I am by no means an authority on anything where this is concerned. However, at a local fun show, the judge refused to place an obviously high dollar horse (in comparison to the mounts everyone else was riding) because of a violation in tack. He was using something that resembled a running martigale and draw reins but with some kind of long shanked cranking bit with a nose band. The man loudly protested complaining that he was "being robbed by a bunch of no good unregistered, unproven horses" and that his horse "has points all over the place" and the judge was "full of crap". Aside from the horse I was riding, yep, every horse in the ring was grade and I only placed 4th (there were 11 in the ring) with 6 of them being placed. 1st was taken by a saddlebred qh cross who looks like a saddlebred but moves like a qh and as the judge told her is "solid, consistent, willing and just plain cute" 2nd went to a palomino of unknown breeding, 3rd went to a painted horses again with no known breeding, 4th went to my student's horse she asked me to show and he's a registered qh of non real "oooh baby" lineage, 5th went to my daughter on a grade qh type mare who has a damaged mouth and rides in a bitless bridle and 6th went to a little 14 qh type gray gelding who had never been shown before. Again, I think maybe some serious saddle time on behalf of the horse's owner and less snarky blogging would be the way to decide if ANY horse you own merits breeding or even showing. There is nothing wrong with owning a nice horse and taking it out on a trail or developing it into a lovely pleasure horse JUST TO HAVE because you LOVE to ride. But that means ACTUALLY RIDING THE HORSE!!!!!!! :)
ya know what Fugly's blog reminds me of? Those sleazy carnival games where you throw weighted beans bag at a bottle.... all her sheeples lined up, one after another to aim and pelt...
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the conformation and riding comments actually and would LOVE to see more conformation on other horses (heck you can even use some of mine!!) I find it informative and enlightening. I don't see this as "becoming Fugly" at all. I see a bunch of horse folks debating the quality of one particular horse. I will gladly put pics and video up of my horses to have people critique. I have not seen anyone be particularly hateful or ugly or evil, jut very upfront and many are giving reasons for why they are being critical (such as the narrow base debate) At no time has anyone name called, posted her phone number, or suggest we all tar and feather her (though warranted). I like seeing everyone's opinions
ReplyDeleteOk, FHOTD is back to the hypocrisy today. She is slamming some BYB. Again, she gets off her topic and starts slamming the lady's financial status despite her horses and other animals looking to be in good condition. Cathy holds herself up as the perfect example for all saying that if you are having financial trouble, you don't get more animals, but you make cuts as needed. I wonder if that includes writing bad checks like Cathy does.
ReplyDeleteAlso, on Bullwinkle's blog is some interesting stuff on Cathy's rescue activities. She went on and on about rescuing that mare `Thai'. Truth is, she never laid eyes on the horse initially but sent her out to her friend's farm and had her do the rehab. She did ask for pictures of the horse, so I guess that is something. Seems Cathy is not a hands on type of owner or rescuer as she would have her followers believe...
lolasl
Financial trouble may be the demand for the livestock is down and the outgoing looks like it's going to be higher than incoming. They were also slamming her for selling the zebra. Pretty much if you don't do what Fugs like she will slam you to make herself feel better. Shame to have such low self esteem
ReplyDeleteYou know, I kinda hate to even mention this, cause this debate could just go on and on and on...
ReplyDeleteBut my barrel horse is a bit high and straight in the hock and the horse is as capable as anything else running. I have also shown him in WP, HUS, Reining, Horsemanship and Showmanship and he actually won 1st in an Aged Gelding halter class that had 11 entries. Against some very nice horses, Thank you very much.
I had joked before going in the class that the judge would have to put him first or last.
High and straight hocked or not, he can round up and travel slow and level for WP(he hates it), He can stretch out and travel flat kneed for HUS(he'll deal with it) and he can flat stick a stop in the Reining(Oh, he loves that). Besides the fact that he can also rate, set and turn a barrel just fine. *We did take some time off this summer because he started diving on 2nd. He ain't perfect(shrugs).
I guess the point I am trying to make is that, just because a horse has a certain fault does not mean they are incapable of doing things correctly and even well. True, it takes more time and effort on the part of the rider/trainer to keep the horse moving correctly, but it's not impossible.
If YHI says the BYC used to move beautifully, I believe her. She is not exactly 'new' to horses and knows better than anyone what the horse was. If a horse used to move nicely and doesn't anymore...I would start blaming the rider and not the horse.
I'm sorry, all I see is a horse that has been allowed to dump on his front-end. It is a very common thing that happens when people get overly impressed at how naturally level their horse's headset is and forget they actually have to do some work to get and keep the horse rounded up and traveling properly FROM BEHIND!
lolasl-Did you notice that it took over 2 months for them to get around to putting Joy to sleep and the blog author ended up having to be the one to do it, even though she said she didn't want to have to be responsible for being there? Guess fugs couldn't be bothered to even end the suffering of one of 'her' rescues.
*AMEN* To everything BEC said.
ReplyDeleteYHI here: The "rescue" of Thai is a typical Cathy Atkinson rescue. VERY TYPICAL. She physically saw Champ exactly THREE TIMES.
ReplyDeleteThe day the brought him to my farm, the day she posed for photos with Katie from Second Chance Ranch, and the day they decided he was too far gone to rehab further.
Fug's rescue formula is this:
#1 Find a "celebrity" to rescue so you have a sensational story to tell.
ie: Champagne til Dawn, Soot, A Barlink Macho Man daughter, etc.
#2 Take lots of pictures of you picking up the horse and rescuing it from its terrible situation.
#3 Find some poor schmuck to physically care for the horse for a nominal fee or even better FREE.
#4 Have the vet and farrier check the horse.
#5 Blather on and on about HER latest rescue on the web.
#6 Show up a few weeks later to see how the horse is improving and take LOTS of pictures.
#8 Find the horse a new adopter as quickly as possible.
Wear the "rescue" like a badge of honor for as long as possible.
Back in the day I was taught that ALL horses had some conformational oddities. It was up to us as the rider/trainer to figure out what we could do to get the horse to move as best as he could. We also had to take into consideration what discipline (in hunt seat riding) would be best for the horse. BYC may not be in the best condition to do what is asked of him. Maybe he needs more chest/shoulder muscles. I don't know. I can't see from the photos or videos. I do know you can take a wonderfully conformed horse and "ruin" them by over/under muscling some areas. I do know the reverse is also true. BYC looks like a nice horse to me, not a conformational wreck. I do know that Cathy seems to love him dearly.
ReplyDeleteI also know that folk can beat someone they profess to love. I've never hear of anyone beating someone they respect though.
YHI, that's exactly the pattern I'm seeing develop reading this other blog. She doesn't appear to get her hands dirty or do any heavy lifting at all. Then I see some of her `rescues' that aren't as high profile advertised for sale as horses with `professional training' on them. I have to wonder how she is checking up on her rescues when they are sold outright....We know she isn't wealthy, so I have to wonder where she gets the cash to board all these horses she has and pay for a trainer to haul BYC all over to all these little nothing shows. How on earth does she afford to keep that one mare (used to be two) in retirement at Paradigm Farms? They seem to be a first class opertation and they are not cheap at all.
ReplyDeleteThe woman she goes after today, I don't understand at all. Yes, she's breeding Gypsy Vanner crosses. That's her idea of a nice horse. I see that as no different than Cathy breeding BYC. This lady on her blog appears to take good care of her animals. There is no crime in having to cut back due to finances. Maybe she decided to get out of the exotics and concentrate on her horses. Just the last time I checked, its not a crime to sell a horse. Also not a crime to breed horses even if we don't all agree what is breeding worthy. So why sick all her little followers on this woman when you know they will harrass, threaten and make her life a living hell? Its sick.
BEC, I agree with what you say. The sad part is, you can't get a horse to move properly or work under themselves if you don't know what that is, what it looks like or what it feels like. Neither Cathy or her `trainer' seem to have any understanding of movement, so BYC has basically no shot of developing into anything. His build will predispose him to having a harder time and pulling injuries behind. That is a fact. It seems that Cathy was too barn blind to see that and do preventitive work on him.
I think if Cathy wants to get rich, she only needs to write a book on how to scam the crap out of people and get things for free on a pet store wage. That is something of hers I would be interested in reading.
lolasl
Does anybody know where Hercules is and how he's making out?
"Make Dan Doshaft a Millionare"
ReplyDeleteA guy put an add in the paper asking every one to send him one dollar , for this when he got a million ,he would write and tell everyone how it felt
http://www.secondchanceranch.org/available.htm
ReplyDeleteHerc is up for adoption maybe he was a bit too much horse for Cathy to ride in the SAFE show LOL
I would like to know the story of how she got Soot if anyone knows
I agree with BEC about horses with imperfect conformation. Really, there are extremely few horses that don’t have a fault somewhere.
ReplyDeleteMy experience with a medium post-legged horse has not been so good. I got her when she was 9 months old. So cute! She’s ½ cow horse ¼ rope horse. She totally took after the rope horse. HUGE hip, stifle, gaskins inside and out, and forearms that challenge any halter horse. I started riding her at 3, not hard, no sliding stops, no quick starts. When I would take her on the trail, she would have a fit and buck going downhill. So I thought stifle or hocks. Had her checked and x-rayed, all clean. By the time she was 5, I was taking her to the big-shot lameness vets in the area and UC Davis. All of them said the same thing: too subtle to find, got to wait until she’s really lame, but she’s cute. She had hock injections just to see if it helped. I did work hard at getting her to engage that big butt, it should have been able to carry two horses. But she was avoiding her rear end, (never found out if it is stifle, hip, hocks or what) she dumped her 1350 lbs forward and pulled the DDFT on the diagonal fore of the rear leg that I always suspected. A year of rest and slowly working back into condition, she started showing changes in both front navicular bones. And that was it, she has never worked again. Stone cold lame at 6. So my point is, be very aware of conformation. If the horse (or stallion) has had recurring lameness issues, RUN AWAY! You don’t need the expense and disappointment of a lame horse, nor do you need to breed a problem for yourself.
Anonymous 6:59 YHI here: I have been watching her "rescue" horses for 5 years now. I can only name ONE horse she fed and cared for herself. ALL the rest someone else took care of and fed groomed and cleaned up after.
ReplyDelete"He is a perfect gentleman in the right environment." Is that code for he will strike when he feels like it? Hmmm, kind of remember hearing Hercules was unpredictable.
ReplyDeleteHere's hoping he finds a good match and I truly mean that. In the wrong hands, the horse or owner could seriously get hurt.
I agree that nearly every horse has faults. The key is to pick faults that won't affect what job you are wanting the horse to do. My old QH is almost, but not quite cow hocked. Its very subtle. But that `fault' allowed him to slide and spin like a dream. I also had to recognize that in him early and pay close attention and do a lot of work to make sure they never bothered him. He's nearly 30 and has yet to even have arthritis in them.
ReplyDeleteI know very few true `halter horses' that ride worth a damn. In general, they are mutton withered and not the best movers. Going back to BYC, with his build, I honestly don't know where I would point him. I guess I would have gelded him adn just enjoyed him at a small show level if that was my thing. He's a pretty color, he has a cute face and doesn't seem overly ambitious or forward. Those things would make him a nice mount for somebody that didn't want to ride him too hard. Its just hard to imagine him as being much different having had him rammed own our throats since she bought him. I still don't forsee a big time career in the AQHA for the horse no matter who has him. Maybe trail class could be his `thing', but Cathy is unclear on the concept fo that too. I saw her bitching that they didn't get to practice over the trail course at World's. She probably doesn't understand that a good trail horse should be able to navigate any course at the request of his rider and have the right expression. Left up to her, she would practice him into the ground so she shuffled through without pause and stopping to `look' at his obstacles. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't think trail was a timed event. Just waiting for BYC's print add advertising his top five placing comes otu and she justifies it by saying its only because he had to pee that he didn't do better....
lolasl.......who is way to cranky to be charitable towards BYC or his owner tonight.
I'm sad Cathy pulled her other riding videos off of youtube. They were seriously funny.
lola said..
ReplyDelete"The sad part is, you can't get a horse to move properly or work under themselves if you don't know what that is, what it looks like or what it feels like. "
Amen, sista.
yeah, I'll never forget Fugly asking what on earth teaching counter-canter was good for.
Uh, look behind you, you know, the engine?
Those two hind legs?
I also used to make an annoyance of myself in her comments by asking why horses heads were so low, in QH's.
THAT went over like a lead balloon, as in, I never got an answer from the blog queen.
Well, how was I to know they'd screwed up QH's since I left the horsie world??
Jeeesh, not MY fault.
Oh, wait, maybe it is.
Might as well be blamed for that, too.
Cecil is a cute boy. He looks straight behind, I think, but as we've all said, there ain't no real confo shots.
That video shows a horse a smitch confused about things. His twitchy/shuffling canter depart gave him away.
But his head could be a LOT lower, from what I've seen in WP/HUS. (hunter under saddle in QH's).
So, I guess that's a good thing:)
And he's well-fed, which as we all know, gives her a gold star, in my books.
"I agree that nearly every horse has faults. The key is to pick faults that won't affect what job you are wanting the horse to do. My old QH is almost, but not quite cow hocked. Its very subtle. But that `fault' allowed him to slide and spin like a dream. I also had to recognize that in him early and pay close attention and do a lot of work to make sure they never bothered him. He's nearly 30 and has yet to even have arthritis in them."
ReplyDeleteYou said it much better than I did Lolasl. Very articulate.
OMG, she did NOT just post this...
ReplyDelete"fhotd says: September 8, 2010 at 8:01 pm My thought on is it that it’s ok to breed a mare who is lame from an accident or a performance related injury (like a suspensory). Not ok to breed a mare with navicular, DSLD, a club foot that isn’t from an injury, or a mare that is obviously lame at a walk (that’s too lame to carry a foal in my book). I would not personally feel comfortable breeding a mare with a history of founder."
She neglected to add `I am perfectly ok to wave this standard in the case of BYC. Its fine to breed a crippled up stallion with no accomplishments because he's a pretty color and he's mine'.....
lolasl
I agree with you there, lolasl. By the way, can we nickname you something easier to type than lolasl? *Chuckles*
ReplyDelete~DK
So, I cannot throw stones because I live in a glass barn so to speak: this morning, we delivered an "ooops" baby. Last summer, a visiting camper did not follow directions and put our 16 yr old Liver Chestnut and White mare next to our "stud paddock". In seconds, she went through the dividing fences, presented, and was stood by 4 of the 6 colts in that pen before anyone could get to her (literally minutes) This is the 1st time we have had an "oops" (12 yrs down the drain). We knew our mare who had never been bred before was in foal and nervously waited. This morning, a beautifully loud colored foal was standing next to her momma & it's a FILLY. She won't be sold or off on the quest for the next champion. She will be raised on the ranch and 3 for 4 years from now will be started with the intent on going into our lesson program or being a family mount. We're trying to find a place to share the pics we have of her because we'd like to hear what you all have to say about our "ooops" aka Hussy's Sweet Hobo barn name: Hobo :) <3Mendy
ReplyDeleteMendy, When I was fresh out of college I worked at a show barn and we had a very expensive 2yr old filly shipped in to us. We did everything to get the belly off her, cut her way back diet wise and nothing would work. Imagine our surprise when the `expensive 2yr old' dropped a gorgeous and healthy filly one day. We asked the owner WTF? and his response was that he only had her in with the same colts she was raised with....some people have more money than brains. The little `oops' was registered and went on to be a fairly decent youth horse from what I was told. I don't see BYC's `oops' babies as being show quality, but at least the gelding appears to be with somebody that loves him and takes good care of him. I'm sure she doesn't consider him an `oops'.
ReplyDeleteCongrats on your new arrival. Sounds like `Hussy' might be a better name for her mama though LOL
lolasl
Lolasl....
ReplyDeletegreat story!!! Hussy is momma's nickname...we call the baby Hobo and she's just a little doll...very inquisitive and we are working on a youtube movie :) <3Mendy
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletelolasl...Take the shine off of most of those 'show' horses and they can't measure up to most of the ranch horses I grew up with.
ReplyDeleteThese days most 'show-bred horses have; No bone, no substance (when high powered grains are not being shoveled into them) and very often no freaking brains.
I'm pretty sure my step-mom's World Champion show horses thought they had died and went to hell when they were moved to our ranch. I was pretty sure I had been sent to hell having to blanket those big wusses all winter, pick stalls, bucket water and pack hay. We couldn't even turn most of them into a corral together because they didn't know how to interact with other horses in a 'loose horse' situation...much less turn them in with the herd that lived in the pasture. Oh, and heaven forbid one of them end up with a scratch or a bite mark (eyeroll). And that was back in the 80's when 'show' horses still had decent reps for being all-around using horses.
It is in fact, much, MUCH easier to turn an ordinary horse into a 'show' horse than it is to turn a show horse into an everyday horse.
And as for 'oops' babies....My 'oops' baby turned into a top broodmare for a very prominant breeder and has foals placing very well at barrel horse futurities and one who is a NFR steer wrestling horse. If you have good stock to begin with, it's not so much 'Oops-I really didn't want that to reproduce', as it is 'Oops-I really didn't want that to reproduce YET.'
Well, most of the trainers I worked for had pretty good `using' show horses. I've worked for cutting horse trainers (that have won the NCHA) and every single one of the horses, I rode for them, studs included, could go out and move cattle or just head out across the fields on a normal ride. We didn't spend every day in the arena with our finished horses.
ReplyDeleteI worked for a standard AQHA show barn and, same thing, even the show horses didn't spend all their time in the arena. They get sour going in circles all the time. I used to ride an appy stud (who was fairly well known and had over 400 points and national championships in wp and hus) down the irrigation canals all the time. He didn't need to be schooled on, he just needed to be kept fit up. I even used to pony young horses off him, he had such a nice mind. It all depends on the show barns, I guess. Even when I briefly rode hunters, we still rode out at least twice a week.
I agree any horse can be made into a `show horse' at a certain level, but its not true they can compete at the highest levels. It really does take something special that can't be trained into them. Just like some people are better at math, some horses are better at certain things. My biggest pet peeve, even in racing is that not everybody takes a horse's mind into consideration when training. I think that's what seperates the real horsemen from everybody else. I've been very fortunate that I started off with some good ones when I didn't know any better. Now I refuse to work for anybody that I don't consider a `horseman'. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I'm wasting my time and every body else's if I don't agree with their philosphy and how they do things. I'm old enough to know what works for me and have been around enough I can pick my spots.
lolasl
Ok....after much technical difficulty....
ReplyDeletehere she is....the ONLY foal produced at Jack Knife Hollow Horse Ranch in 2010 or ever for that matter......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1xEgNBr2Ag
<3 Mendy
Born on my birthday, a beautiful little girl. I approve.
ReplyDelete~Dk
What a cutie! I love her `funny' face. I think you're right about the daddy too.....
ReplyDeletelolasl
However he came to you , what is a cutie! I am sure he/she will be well loved
ReplyDeleteMendy - I agree with FernValley, she is a cutie. But, I gotta ask, out of curiosity and ignorance of the options: why did you not take any action to prevent a foal when you knew she'd been covered?
ReplyDelete(Also not looking for anything to feed the jackals over on FHOTD.)
Fugly Blog Nov. 4 2009
ReplyDeletePost: Thank you for having standards.
Mare Owner information listed stuff like being current on vaccinations, registration papers, clean bill of health, etc etc very basic stuff.
Fugly’s response:
What a great list! As a stallion owner, I’ve already put some thought into what my own rules are going to be. Basically, I’m thinking that I need to see side and front pictures of the mare standing on asphalt so that I can see her feet and a video clip showing her being ridden or led at a trot to approve her for breeding. Lame mares need a vet report explaining the reason – I would breed someone’s show horse that pulled a suspensory, for example, but not a navicular mare. I would not breed a mare who was more than mildly lame for obvious reasons. I like the “condition” rules outlined above very much. It is highly unlikely I would breed a grade mare or a mare whose registration would not result in a foal that was registerable with a major registry (i.e. Arabs and Thoroughbreds would be fine, not TWH’s). I’m always baffled when a discount is offered for grade mares. It makes sense to me to offer a discount for mares who have earned at least a ROM or the equivalent in their breed. Why not offer a financial incentive for people to bring you good performance mares and therefore increase the odds that your stallion’s foals will be (a) show quality and (b) belong to people who will actually show? (I have seen some stallion owners do this – but not that many)
Uhhh, maybe Cathy should provide a vet report to the mare owners about her stallion’s lamenesses since her standards are SOOOO high.
And from her Leland Neff post with some appropriate changes (strikethrough won’t work, original in parens):
ReplyDeleteWHAT A STUPID SONOVABITCH YOU ARE! Why would you WANT a (rank) lame horse to breed on? Do you have NO sense of responsibility toward horses at all? Please get out of Thoroughbreds, too. That breed doesn’t need this kind of moronic thinking either.
People like you, (Leland) Cathy, are TOTALLY the problem. TOTALLY the problem. The worst part is, you probably think you’re a victim and will have even more of that attitude when someone tells you about this blog entry.
Not a Follower: Given the facts we didn't breed this mare to "let our kids experience the joys of foaling" (vomit...really people do that??) or with the hopes of getting the next great show horse or to add color to our breeding program (since we don't breed) or to sell her for a fast buck or to breed the mother cuz she's "not good for anything else" coupled with the idea that we regularly purchase young, unbroke horses for our lesson and therapy programs which we train ourselves, I suppose we didn't really think about abortion as an option--frankly, it never crossed my mind. Since we have the means to care for her as well as the other horses that call our ranch "home" killing her in utero again just didn't enter into the picture. There were 4 studs in the paddock: Frost (the suspected father) & Oliver who we are gelding this spring at the age of 3 after they have some more grow time, Whiskey who is scheduled for October (2 and a half yrs) and Cocoa who was cryptorchid & just descended this June at the age of 4 yrs (this colt was abandoned by a boarder with us). We don't just have stallions to have them or because we don't believe in gelding them. It was just an accident due to a 12 yr old boy not listening and us not running fast enough to get to her.
ReplyDeleteAnd as far as becoming cannon fodder for the fugster and her crew, BRING IT ON in this case....we have a lovely correct double blue papered MFT mare with points and color to boot, my registered paint stud (soon to be gelding) is under saddle at the age of 3 yrs, works on the lounge nicely, rides in the arena and oh yeah, I RIDE HIM....NOT a trainer. We are not showing him or trying to get ROM points or spending thousands on him in the hopes to get said points for whatever my personal gain is....these 2 created the oooops who if nothing more is lovely to look at cuz we got color baby.....my stud is only a stud so he can grow a bit more....what's HER excuse and 2 ooops??? LOL <3Mendy
ReplyDeleteI have a question, the only two incidences of lameness I remember hearing about is back when BYC pulled his stifle muscles and this latest accident when he hung a leg in his stall. Has the horse been lame other times and what was the excuse for his lameness?
ReplyDeleteIf Cathy tries to enforce those `standards' on mares coming to her stud, he's going to go without for a very long time. Any mare owner that can meet her standards likely is going to think BYC does not meet theirs. Again, take away his color and you have a very average, not particularily correct horse. I think Cathy thought she was going to show everybody how to do things right and is finding out its not as easy as she thought.....
ReplyDeleteThere have been at least three, if not four, incidents of major hind end lameness in BYC that she has admitted to. I'm not buying the `hung his leg in the stall' story due to the fact he was not cut up and they had him in the show ring within a few days. Again, LOOK at his conformation. He will always have stifle/hock problems by virtue of how he is built. Then you can look at his `oops' baby and he is throwing the same crappy hind end to his foals.
The stuff that was said and done to Leland make me sick. He has beautiful horses and takes good care of them. He's also not dumping them at auction. Cathy is likely jealous of the fact that Leland appears to do most of the traning himself and can actually ride. I wish I looked as good on a horse as he does....
lolasl
No one but Cathy really knows all about BYC's issues (if any). Being unremarkable in the show ring and siring the two common-looking, short-necked 'oops' foals should be enough evidence for most people to find a better stallion to breed to.
ReplyDeleteMendy, I see you are leaving those colts intact until three for more growing time.. There are scientific studies that show that testosterone is a growth inhibitor in horses and that they will actually grow taller if gelded earlier. The old myth that a colt needs to be intact until maturity for size is just that, a myth. They can be cut as early as a week after birth and grow up just fine. Most folks wait until fall after they are weaned, and the flies are not bad. But I would not leave a bunch of intact youngsters around unless I was thinking about using one as a stud.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Mendy...
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:58: I don't know about horses, but I know if you neuter a male dog early he will grow taller than he would if left intact. But there's more to growth than height. From personal experience and speaking with others in the dog world, dogs who are allowed to fully mature before being neutered have better bone and joint development, and better minds than dogs who are neutered early.
If horses work the same way, I could see an argument for waiting to geld, provided you have the ability and facilities to handle a young stallion. If for no other reason, I would think it would benefit a horse to have better bone and joint development.
I don't know much about horses (which is why I read;^), but there is new research in dogs that shows early neutering can cause significant health risks later in life: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
ReplyDeleteIf lame (as in unsoundness) does not apply to BYC, substitute the Urban Dictionary definition:
ReplyDeleteLame: A person, thing, or group that is not cool, tending to be unoriginal. Often marked by the fact that it is out of touch with current trends.
Old school stallion testing is to put the stud to a below average mare. If he puts a good baby on the ground he gets to keep the jewels. VLC has failed that test. Why would you breed a stud who does not improve the mare? It doesn't matter what a stud does, it matters what he throws. To my mind, stifle problems are one of the worst faults a horse can have, and it seems common in today's halter horses.
ReplyDeleteYour baby is beautiful Mendy! I see nothing wrong with breeding a fine mare to a fine colt.
As much as people like fubb want to blame 'back yard breeders' for the flaws in today's horses, I see the damage being done by the show ring mentality of 'extreme' is better. Horses that are too specialized can only be used in a narrow niche and do not land the family horse status that usually means a great and loving home.
As much as I love the rush of turning a rank horse into a saddle horse, I also realize that riding a rank horse will frequently ruin a rider. We instinctively avoid situations that will get us killed, so that rank horse will train it's rider to avoid situations, ask less, and adopt defensive riding positions. A kid frequently gets along with a rank horse fine until they try to ask the horse to do something it doesn't want to do. The rescue mentality that 'anyone can take an OTTB and turn it into a pet horse' is pure BS. Yes, it does happen occasionally, but they sure don't warn people about how bad it can be when it doesn't work.
Kestrel -
ReplyDeleteIt's not just about being capable of turning around a rank horse (or other animal). The failures are heartbreaking (and sometimes bonebreaking), but perhaps even worse are the mentally/physically sound animals that go to their deaths or spend their lives in a shelter because someone passed them over in favor of a problem animal that they thought they could save, or felt sorry for.
I see the whole business of effusive praise for people who buy rank horses at auction the same way I do effusive praise for people who adopt "problem" dogs: Yes, it is laudable and good, but the first focus should be on saving the animals that have the best chance of going on to have sane and useful lives (be that as a companion or as a working animal).
I think that both groups (horse and dog) have fallen into the trap of letting some real gems go to slaughter/euthanization/permanent-shelter-resident because too many people want to prove themselves by saving a "difficult" animal.
Yes, all critters have value, but until the resources exceed the demand, we each have a responsibility to choose carefully when we set out to "rescue" an animal.
Aw Kestrel, I have a hundred funny stories about retraining OTTB's and most of the problems, just from the things I've seen, come from people like me, really good hearted, but basically ignorant. When I tack a horse, I slide a thick blanket and a western saddle on it, and when I mount I hook my foot in the stirrup and hoist myself aboard 'cause that's the way I've always done it. If I was riding any of my horses, I'd be fine. But OTTB's are trained, from the time they are tiny, to be tacked with different gear and mounted from the top, not the side. Even something as simple as starting and stopping is different in the world of an OTTB. Retraining them isn't brain surgery, it just requires a basic understanding of thier previous training..But it's up to the New Owners to understand and know what they are doing... And it's up to the Re-Homers to be sensitive to their needs and explain them clearly. IMO
ReplyDeleteExactly NAF! Triage HAS to be done, whether we like it or not. Animals are ambassadors for their offspring's future. I know of several owners that got stuck with evil tempered unsound horses, got hurt, and got out of horses for good. A nice safe sound horse would have been so much fun that they'd have owned several! The show ring propagation of unrealistic ideals is responsible for way too many unusable horses.
ReplyDeleteYeah, don't get me wrong, I do love OTTB's. It does take some specialized knowledge to successfully retrain them though, and they are not for your average amateur. And retraining a messed up show horse can really be a doozy. (A park horse story comes to mind....!)
ReplyDeleteI do think the walkaloosapaintpdraftpony breeders are a reaction to the uber specialization of some strains of performance and show horses, and people who are concentrating on raising safe family horses are not the enemy.
My trainer has been involved with breeding and training for going on forty years. She laughs at newbies that go looking at horses and complain the horse isn't perfectly conformed. She says some of her best moving horses were pigeon toed. Judging a horse's breeding potential by two pictures is pretty novice.
ReplyDeleteSure, you can get a fairly good idea on the main things, short ugly necks, weird shaped heads, but this seems like a pretty odd thing to do for a an unaccomplished stud. It is her horse, if she wants to do it, then she can. Personally I think it's a good idea, the world doesn't need any more average Quarter Horses, there's a few thousand on Craiglist going for under $1,000 on any given day.
NAF-
ReplyDeleteAgree. I just declined to give money to a local 'rescue' that supports some blind and lame horses. What is the point of keeping them? If it's my horse and I pay for its upkeep and love it, then fine. But to beg for money from others to feed and house useless and hopeless horses? You're on your own as far as I'm concerned. If the herd needs to be thinned, let's not keep the worst members. I do think that it's an ego thing to have the most lame, most malnourished, oldest, most abused etc horse to save. I am much more inclined to heap praise upon someone who salavages horses that are good citizens and puts them back to work.
Short necks, weird angles, etc. are not a big deal, but from the pics of the two oops foals VLC throws a weak stifle. I think your trainer will tell you that that's one unforgivable fault.
ReplyDeleteAnd once again, no one is bashing Cathy for anything but her hypocritical attitude about breeding.
Anon 1:26: I know what you mean. It's not that I think that a blind/lame horse doesn't deserve a home, nor would I ever tell someone they have no right to set up what amounts to a hospice for horses, but my charity dollars go to places that are creating a future for an animal as their goal.
ReplyDeleteSomeone, either here or on FHOTD, posted one rescue's policies for their horses a while back. It amounted to "up or out". Each horse got so much time to be rehabilitated to adoptable status. If a horse couldn't be rehabbed, it was humanely euthanized. I wish I could remember the details.
I agree that pretty is as pretty does, but structural problems the predispose a horse to unsoundness are not traits I would ever breed an animal with. Buying a finished, accomplished horse that is less than perfect is one thing. He/she is already a known factor as far as what it is capable of and how its holding up, but anybody who has ever dealt with a horse with a stifle injury is not too eager to do it again. I agree with kestrel, it is an inforgivable flaw in conformation.
ReplyDeleteanon, I'm wondering what discipline your `trainer' specializes in. Having pigeon toes and being a great mover is a bit contrary in a flat class. If its a horse that is going strictly on athletics, then you are correct, it might not be a big deal. But, your `trainer' can laugh all they want at `newbies' wanting the perfect horse. Its a buyer's market these days and when you can get a well put together horse that is trained how you want, for a reasonable price, why would you settle for less than perfect if you don't have to? I'm not saying less than perfect or even `ugly' horses don't deserve good homes, they all do. I had a OTTB that was not pretty at all (huge hammer head), but was the sweetest horse and have a great mind. He ponied horses on the track after he was done racing and never let us down. But that was a `job' he was suited for. As far as the show ring, in performance classes, pretty and as near perfect as you can get are important...
lolasl
To anon 8:18...thank you for sharing your stallion knowledge....most of our colts are gelded as soon as they drop.....however, under advisement of the breeder that both Frost and Oliver came from who still has their daddy and puts out 4 color colts every other year and along with our vet (and yes...he's an old cowboy country vet but damn he has seem some things in his time and knows horses)...we feel leaving the boys intact until this spring is in their best interest....the 3rd colt dropped late and we are waiting until the flies are down & as previously stated, the 4th colt was cryptorchid and left behind by a boarder who moved out....we had to "follow protocol" in obtaining ownership of the horse and we were debating on whether or not to give him away if he were to have remained "little johnny one nut" as the quotes we got from the vet hospital were a little astronomical for removing the way high up there nugget....he was very stunted due to his condition & shot up over 5 inches since the end of june...again, our vet and the hospital both advised leaving him intact until spring.
ReplyDeleteAs far as a "bunch"...we have 5 at the ranch...the ones we mentioned plus a 4 yr stallion who arrived for training last week and is being gelded Monday per when his owner's vet could arrive....the others are kept separate from our mares.....on the other side of the ranch. When the colts are worked, they are worked in the pen next to their paddock and are only allowed in the arena if there are no mares being worked and if their are no novice riders working
Kestrel...thank you for the compliments on our baby...she's a pretty little ooops <3Mendy
Not A Follower: Your comment about "up and out" made me literally sick. As most know, I was accused of being a "faux rescue" and "dumping a horse with a killer buyer" yet almost every horse we own has come from a "less than desirable situation". 6 years ago, we took on several "last chance mustangs"...if these mustangs were sent back to the BLM after being titled a 3rd time, they would be euthanized. We agreed to take them on. It took us 2 yrs to get through to most of them. However, one of those is still very wary of the saddle. He will come to you in the pasture and you can pick up his feet, groom him, etc but he just doesn't want any part of being ridden. He is gelded, vetted just like the rest and is causing us no grief. So, we try and if he is not ready he goes back out for some more "thinking time". Maybe some day we will ride him. Maybe we won't. But I am willing to continue to try and if he never comes around, he was a good pasture mate to 3 of our riding horses. Point is, in a REAL RESCUE with their board of directors and 501c3 and policies, he would probably have been put down. At our ranch, we hold him as a piece of our American heritage & as he gallops away from breakfast I can't help but think "damn he's pretty". For me, damn he's pretty is enough reason for him to live at our ranch <3Mendy
ReplyDeleteanon 1:26,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but I don't agree with the tag of `useless' and `hopeless'. I don't think any animal is useless or hopeless and if somebody chooses to focus on elderly rescues or the severely injured, who are any of us to say that's wrong? You are within your rights not to support such rescues, but to say its out of ego, I just don't get that at all.
I read about Joe from TBfriends (who I think is a saint) taking in a starved mare who was `hopeless' She died peacefully in his yard after a few days. Because she was so far gone, you would say she was useless and he did it out of ego. I see it as that animal had a chance to know kindness and die with dignity and feeling safe. You can't put a value on that. In other cases, the useless and hopeless have rallied and gone on to bring joy into somebody else's life or even raise awareness of animal abuse. As for myself, I think there is something unspeakably beautiful and dignified about most old horses. If they are that old, most of them got that way by serving people and working their entire lives. I think that makes them worth rescuing...
The bottom line is rescue or support whatever tugs at your heart strings the most. Its an individual thing for all of us. I would never support a rescue that turns their horses over for profit. I don't think its right to snag the young, fit and pretty, put 30 days or so on them and then sell them down the road for a profit. That's not rescue to me, that's horse trading. You've just found a good supplier for your `business' in the feed lots and I won't support `rescues' that do that. To each their own, I guess....
lolasl
lolasl
Lady Evie Gray- look into HGF hormone shots for Johnnie One Nut. Three shots, one every few weeks can usually stimulate that shy one to drop then the geldng can commence. Not expensive at all, mine ran about $35 bucks per shot but MUST be done by the vet as it is an venous shot. Mine dropped by the second shot and was ready to go where it previously had not even been palpable two weeks earlier.
ReplyDeleteanon 5:58...he dropped in June...we are just waiting for the fly population to drop off...he will be done in late Oct or early Nov....he's a lovely riding horse already and a very lucky young man is getting him for Christmas :) <3Mendy
ReplyDeleteI do have to disagree that having less than optimal "stifle conformation" is an "unforgivable" flaw. One of my geldings, Wizard would be considered that way, however, he is a hunter, can easily clear over 3'6" fences and he is only 15 hands, he is a wonderful mover, has a 10 trot and does auto flying changes. Have we ever had lameness issues because of his stifles, uh, no!
ReplyDeletePlease remember that blanket statements are not our friend.
I wholeheartedly agree with Lolasl 4:23 comment.
Oh, CCC, I didn't mean 'unforgivable flaw' in most horses at all! Unless you're breeding a horse with known stifle lameness. Now that's a drive by slapping offence, unless it's an injury, because the stifle lameness that is hereditary is absolutely a terrible thing. The horses that are born with weak stifles suffer so horribly. The ligaments tear, upward fixation of the patella is common, they can't walk without pain, and because it's a lameness that is frequently missed the horses are asked to do things they just can't do and they try until they fall apart. They are unsound at very young ages, and it is so easily avoided by not breeding that specific fault. It's our duty to ensure that the horses don't suffer, so breeding a known pain factor is really not cool. (And don't risk HYPP by breeding a known carrier of that fault, either.)
ReplyDeleteThat's why I tend to think that small breeding operations are better for the species in the long run. When the genetic pool becomes concentrated problems become magnified, kind of like the cancer problems in Tasmanian Devils.
It was not my intent to sound callous by praising a rescue for having an "up or out" policy, just trying to state it in as few words as possible. IMO, when an organization that receives tax exempt status to rescue and rehabilitate horses has the same horses on their hands for years at a time with no progress, or repeatedly picks up horses that they know are going to cost thousands with a low probability of success, they are doing a disservice to the horses and to the people who are supporting their stated goals. Yes, I know you can't always tell, but I've heard of far too many cases where the folks involved knew going in or found out early that they were dealing with a very poor prognosis, but chose to spend thousands on a gamble instead of hundreds on the "sure thing" of giving that horse a couple of weeks or a month of cookies and scritches followed by a humane, dignified death. Who were they doing it for? The horse or themselves? They definitely aren't helping the many handful of moderately messed-up, or just neglected horses that they could have saved with the money spent on the one lost, but hearttugging, cause.
ReplyDeleteIf a rescue wants to be a "sanctuary" and provide forever homes, that's fine. As long as that is their stated goal.
Likewise a private individual/farm that is already producing healthy, sane horses choosing to take in a problem horse and spend years rehabbing it, or just giving it a cushy life. Or someone who has space for and the desire to just have a horse around for a companion. I think either of those are great ways to give back to horses for all they give us.
What's with the snarkiness, lolsal? and your need for "quotations." Fugly misses you.
ReplyDeleteFugly misses quite a few of us, as reading her comment section shows....
ReplyDeleteI wonder if old Fugs is going to attack the University of Missouri for this press release.....We have personally felt the impact of the unwanted horse in the form of pathetically thin and ill horses tied to our front gates. Yet, I am so excited about the possibility of a low cost or no cost castration clinic that I jumped up and down when I read that. GO MIZZOU
ReplyDeletehttp://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2010/0824-horses-are-victims-of-economic-turmoil-nationally
Today she wrote ......
ReplyDeleteA fellow rescuer and I were chatting this morning,
Oh you delusional hag! Cathy hearing about a horse does not make you a rescuer. Having someone else buy it , haul it, feed and care for it makes them the rescuer. You are nothing but a wannabe.
Sort of like how sleeping with a polo player doesn't mean she knows how to play polo??
ReplyDeleteI just read back, and wow Mendy, what a raw deal. Reminiscent of the lady who owned the TB that wound up at auction, that fug was trying to extort money from...wow. Mind boggling.
ReplyDeleteI think 'horse traders' do a great job of saving young healthy horses from slaughter by training them, and they deserve to be compensated for risking their lives in the process. The more money they make the more horses they have the time to work with, because we've all gotta eat. I think sanctuary shelters have their hearts in the right place also. When both sides are doing the right thing by as many horses as they can support, I don't understand the infighting.
Any rescue that depends on donations to support their cause is just one step away from disaster. I'm not so sure that tax free status is such a good thing, since it leads so many people to get in over their heads and amass huge herds. Maybe lobbying to give a tax break to people who each take in just a couple of unwanted horses would solve some problems. Couple it with a tax on foals. Carrot and stick kind of deal...? The market will correct itself as horses already born die, if fewer horses are bred as replacements. The problem is...what do we do in the meantime?
Kestrel: Yep, we had the short end of the fugly stick there ;) And, because I don't think anything you try to say in defense works, I never bothered. Boarders and friends did only to be verbally slapped around (like our one equine professional who is a guy mind you writing under a pseudonym of something or another cowgirl with an email of cougar...LOL) No one wanted to hear about the horses we have "saved" or "rescued" or "rehabbed" or basically screw it: gave a damn good home to. Like the 20 yr old Belgian sold for $100 to us with her neck bloody from wearing the collar nonstop for years. Or the 20 ex race horse turned hunter jumper turned to starving now that he was useless to the barn that we bought in KY when we were buying another horse for a student. In his case, the instructor of the fancy barn took us to a dirty stall and said "for a 50 dollar bill you can put him on your trailer too". He recovered and went on to teach a family with us to ride and lived 4 good years. We could make a list of horses, how much we spent caring for them, and have the pics and videos to back it up (along with a garage full of paper work). And never, 1 time, did we every panhandle for money or offer tax receipts or write offs. We did it because we were moved to. Kind of like this evening when a smooth mouthed Belgian came into the ring and the dealers were bidding, if they got too close, we were going to bid em out and take him home. As it was, they got out bid anyway and a really nice family took that old man home. You do what's right because it's right...not to make a name for yourself ;) <3 Mendy
ReplyDeleteEducation for Sale Barns in Central Missouri:
ReplyDeleteLoose horses are presently bringing MORE money than those ridden or lead into the ring. And, the average price this evening was $350. There were close to 30 head of loose horses run through and over half of them had papers with signed transfers and shockingly (not the norm with past trends) all but 4 had clean coggins and were in GOOD GOOD FLESH. Several were called out to be "broke to ride" Less than 1/4 of them went to the dealers (again SHOCKING compared to previous sales) Downside: Riding horses were started LOWER than loose. Over half were unregistered, nothing spectacular, used for trail only horses. Instead of the company taking the horses no one bid on and reselling in 2 weeks, they randomly assigned the horses to a dealer. 1 dealer took 11 horses and paid over $500 for 3 of them. His spending money on them was nearly $7000 and the average person like me doesn't have that kind of money or space to have saved them all. I did get literally sick when a lovely 6 yr old grade gelding who stood 16.3hh & was in great shape was started at $550. No one bid & he was assigned to a dealer. The owner hesitated (I figured he was going to NS him)& then sold him anyway. Friend of ours tried to buy the horse off the dealer offering $700. He wanted $1800 for the horse 4 minutes after he left the ring. THIS is just wrong. I offered to toss in $200 and a saddle I bought earlier (brand new Hereford ) & the dealer still refused. This kind of highway robbery from the dealers is wrong. Sell the damn horse for a few bucks more than you paid if you feel you need to turn a profit but don't try to gouge someone because the horse got randomly put with you & you're gunna hit their heartstrings. I had to leave at that point. My temperance was not in check and I can't NOT pay my ranch mortgage. UGH
I'm glad you're telling your story now Mendy, you darn well deserve to have the chance! Bless ya!
ReplyDeleteIt truly is sad that that crowd won't listen to the success stories to put things in perspective. There are some horror stories, but there are also beautiful stories.
The people who took your horse are absolutely creepy, but how the heck could you know that? Con men are good at what they do or they wouldn't be able to con people.
In all fairness, I do know some dealers that will work harder to find a good horse a home than their detractors give them credit for. I have to respect the guy that fubb has slammed so viciously. It would be easier for him to just say 'who needs the grief' and ship every horse. He's braving the madding crowd by allowing the sound, sane ones to find a life. I truly hope he makes a little money doing that, because then he'll KEEP doing that. And Rebels have my admiration and respect for volunteering to list the horses even after being publicly attacked. (Ya hear me Helen?! I mean it! You guys rock!)
What is that quote about 'doing one small thing is better than all the good intentions combined'?
LEG, now that is just wrong. I wonder if the dealer had someone in mind for the horse since it makes no sense to not make a little money and turn it immediately. Weird. Especially since it's a long haul from Missouri to either Canada or Mexico. Sadly enough, dude string horses are usually the last horses to get high bids around here, also.
ReplyDeleteIm wondering why Cathy hasnt mentioned the killfest going on at SOS. They are down to 8 horses from 23 in less than 2 weeks after Shawna was caught emailing her supporters she was going to put them down rather than feed her own hay to them.
ReplyDeleteWord verv muniat
How the heck could she afford putting down that many horses if she didn't have enough cash for hay?!
ReplyDeletekestrel
ReplyDelete-in Fulgy's words "a bullet is a cheap way to euthanize if you know how to do it correctly"
-she doesn't have a problem with the horses being killed, she just doesn't like the fact that someone can make money on their horse going to slaughter.
Gah! Fug lost me when she said it was perfectly ok for an owner to put down a healthy trained horse because 'no one else would take care of it the way the owner would', even though several good horsemen wanted the horse and guaranteed a lifelong home. That reminded me way too much of the funeral pyres where the wives were thrown in the fire... I think that's hubris at it's worst.
ReplyDeleteI'm just not subtle enough to get the distinctions they make about 'uething good, slaughter bad' since both involve killing the horse. After all, dead is dead. Once they're dead why would it matter what use the body is put to?
I think putting down horses that have health or severe behavioral issues is fine, just make it quick. Putting down a horse that has every chance of getting a good forever home is kind of over the line for me. Attacking people who have ran out of resources and are trying to find the horse a good home is stupid and cruel.
Kestrel said "Attacking people who have ran out of resources and are trying to find the horse a good home is stupid and cruel."
ReplyDeleteMight I add it is also counter productive. If someone is having financial problems then the obvious choice is to find a horse or Yak or Buffalo or whatever a good home. Bashing them for trying to do so is ridiculous and may cause them to stop trying to find the animal a home and either abandon it or run it straight to the nearest auction house without identifying information. That is one reason I am so AGAINST Fugly bashing people who take horses to sales. All it does is make people think twice about sending their animals with their papers instead of making them think twice about sending the horse itself. It hurts horses far more to be anywhere without papers ESPECIALLY the auction.
I see Fugly and her followers as the types who love to stomp people when they are down and then proudly proclaim that their cruelty is justified "for the horses".
I do not know who asked what good Fugly's blog has done, but my answer is it has greatly hurt a lot of people, and helped horses very little if at all.
It has seemed to parlay into cash for Cathy Atkinson so she can buy more lattes and gain 10 lbs (probably more like 20 if she is admitting to 10). That is all I see that it has accomplished.
I guess all our comments on her needs to be a gelding BYC is getting to her she had to go find another BYC to shred LOL
ReplyDeleteHmm funny todays post is going off on "how to get on the Fugly Blog" And honestly the first two studs are NO BETTER the BYC.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess its the kind of thing. Its breeding conformation only a mother could love
Evening all ! ! ! Kestrel: THANK YOU for pointing out this "Might I add it is also counter productive. If someone is having financial problems then the obvious choice is to find a horse or Yak or Buffalo or whatever a good home." We have been preaching "education not persecution" (please do not confuse with PROSECUTION) I do not see the fug blog as anything other than a equine witch hunt.."kill the beast" as the citizens charge with Gaston (my new nickname for her) & their pitchforks and torches....I actually spoke to Jennifer (the yak lady). I left her a message warning her of the fugster's posting of her phone # and encouraging the lynch mob to go after her. What I got was a lovely lady who never said "financial hardship" but "a financial situation"....hello, the yak are no longer profitable. She is LOSING money...THAT is a financial situation. Her animals are well fed and she made a good decision to get out BEFORE she loses her shirt. THIS IS GOOD BUSINESS...when you sell BEFORE the stock FALL on Wall St. you are savvy. She also stated that she was looking to get into breeding for a very SPECIFIC need in her area..she never asked for 100s of mares. She is trying to develop a stocky horse that moves in a certain manner for clients PER REQUEST. I don't breed but I do change to meet the demand of my clients. For example, I usually only teach private lessons but to accommodate the large number of students who need to ride all at the same time...I CHANGED HOW I RUN MY LESSONS. It was that or lose my client base. Fugs is screaming about people doing the wrong thing...hell baby, we got a woman here who is getting out of Yaks while the getting is good and changing her program to meet the demand in the area. Seems like she's got it right!
ReplyDeleteoh man...Cathy didn't put this:
ReplyDelete"I will make up half truths and post them on the internet as well as attack your financial situations, your sexual orientation, make sure anyone online can find your home by posting your address and phone number after I stalk you because I didn't like you selling a horse anywhere, and criticize you for having a stallion"
Dammit, I was looking for that and didn't get it!! <3 Mendy
kestrel is brilliant, but I knew that a LONG time ago:)
ReplyDeleteWell darn, as much as I'd like to be brilliant... it was anon 6:28! Who also added that the woman's decision to breed was FOR A SPECIFIC MARKET!!!! Yay! If breeders breed what owners want...the horses wind up in homes that treasure them. And it may become a wakeup call for the people who keep breeding big ass meat machines for the showring. The problem with WP Quarterhorses is that the horses who hate showing or wash out have a very narrow window of people who want them for other purposes.
ReplyDeleteThanks GL!
I don't know enough about horses to judge the quality of those studs that Fugly's ripping on, but I can't help but notice that they're on the owner's farm, and presumably in the owner's direct care. To me, that makes her a far more responsible person when it comes to keeping a stud than Fugly is.
ReplyDeleteI'm having a hard time believing she wrote that blog today. She's going after somebody for breeding a mare with post hocks???? She calls the paint stallion fugly and the palomino clunky? Is she really that barn blind. If you took away a nice head on BYC he has all the faults these horses have and she was stupid enough to pay 5K for him. I will agree that the paint stallion is standing funny so its hard to assess what is going on with his front legs, but he has a better hind end, body etc. than BYC.
ReplyDeleteAgain, looking around this lady's site it appears her horses are well cared for and priced out of kill buyer range. Is this really somebody that needs to be harrassed and bothered just because they happen to do a few things that you dont' agree with? I see no abuse here....Look at their `other horses page'. There you will see a retired horse that was 29 when his picture was taken and looked like he could still walk in the show ring. There are a few rescue/rehab horse and some retirees. I would let this farm look after my horses by the looks of things. They also appear to show in the bigger shows or at least sell to people that do. They must be doing something right? Or maybe now you shouldn't breed your horse unless it can win in a pinto show or go top five out of six in the world? Cathy really needs to shut up because she is making herself look dumber and dumber each time she posts a blog like this....
lolasl
Hey all...I hear that golden stallion is possibly going to a great home. Someone on this blog contacted her and they are in negotiations. The present owner wants the stallion maintained as a stallion until spring and then will bring two of her own personal mares to the new owner's ranch for breeding and mare care. After that, the new owner is planning on gelding this stallion and the previous owner is perfectly content with this arrangement. Now my thinking is this: the new owner is getting a horse that is listed for $3000 by agreeing to "free lease" the horse through winter and then "Pay for him by allowing the previous owner to stand 2 mares" to produce foals for her own use. This seems like a win-win-win situation for everyone. Owner gets 2 babies from horses she already owns. New owner gets a nice horse. Stallion gets a little before getting the snip snip.
ReplyDeleteOk I have to say this: I looked on Fugs blog this morning because of the stallion and saw the "grace" story. In her case, I believe that death would be a gift to this horse. They are citing how her organs haven't shut down and she's full of spirit. Has anyone thought about the long term affects on Grace? Perhaps her liver seems fine now but what type of damage has happened internally that may cause her early death and suffering. We have seen horses in better condition fail and go down in pain. I THOROUGHLY disagree with keeping this poor baby alive and the rescue that is doing such good work...how about releasing her from the pain she is in and taking the money you are asking people for to save her and applying it to a young horse that needs training and a little weight. I am angered someone would let her get this way but I am more angered by the selfish people using this horse to bolster revenue for their rescue. Put her down! Death is sometimes the greatest gift you can give!
ReplyDeleteAnd oh why is is so important for Cathy to keep the name sekret? Maybe people are giving the person more horses right now so is this enabling on Strawberry Mt and Cathy's part?
ReplyDeleteA badge for the $$ pit is all that horse is and they will rake in thousands and have to put her down anyway SICK!!
I have to disagree about Grace. I believe if a horse has a chance and is still fighting to get better then its fine to try. The important part is the horse still having some fight left in them. There is a `spark' in their eyes that when it goes out, will tell you when its over. Extreme cases such as this can raise awareness an maybe inspire someboy else to come forward in cases where the old horse in the pasture they drive by every day is wasting away.
ReplyDeleteWhat I want to know is why Cathy has to take a shot at ABR. I wonder how much money and time Cathy has ponied up for Grace other than blogging about her? Cathy seems overly obsessed with people getting jobs. Perhaps her own spotty resume is her motivation? I honestly think she does more harm than good at times as I automatically question anybody she supports as to their integrity or knowledge. Personally, I wouldn't want her endorsement given her history and actual reputation...
lolasl
ha! The owner of the two stallions that Fugly Cathy was doing a beat-down on responded on Fugly's blog and effectively put an end to the bitching. Good for her. I can't imagine what Fugly is thinking. The woman's horses compete at higher levels than BYC will ever sniff. I wonder how many comments were deleted by Fugs because they told her that BYC is no better than the 'purty kolor' horses that she's bashing? Lots I bet. And if no one did, I'm happy to say it here. Fugly - you SUCK! (I know, not very mature.)
ReplyDeleteLolasl...I still say allow Grace to die with grace and dignity. Lots and lots of animals have sparks in their eyes. It doesn't mean that it's the best option for the animals. It has to be terribly painful for her to move and to lay down. I think back to the day when we put down a very aged (she was 45 according to all the paperwork) fox trotter. She had started to lose her eye sight and began losing weight. She was in no way emaciated but you could see laying down was painful and getting up was worse. We put her down and buried her on the ranch. I could have tried to keep weight on her and stalled her as her eyes failed but WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? So I have to wonder WHY Grace? Why not use the pics for educational purposes? The money being spent on Grace could have gone to a local sale and more than likely purchased every single young, unwanted horse. I just think that in a case as totally severe as hers that the kindest option really is to put her down. Put most people won't see it that way and certainly won't donate so she can have a humane death. I respectfully disagree on the course of action where Grace is concerned and think it is HUMANLY SELFISH and not humane at all :( <3Mendy
ReplyDeleteAlso, WTH is Cathy's problem....come on really? The woman with the palomino has horses in great condition and aside from a pic where the horse is standing funky, they really don't look awful. Cathy's fugnuggets are screaming "ribs" and "conformation faults" and "liar". WTH....do any of these continued followers have an ounce of sense (horse or otherwise) or do they just jump on the fug bandwagon because they can bash the hell out of someone with little regard to the fact the person is real...it's not a nameless, faceless entity. It's like a bunch of clique-y girls who all gang up on the fat kid and then get really pissed when the fat chick grows up, turns into a knock out and is married to some fabulously rich man who treats her like royalty. I am sending Cathy a copy of "Mean Girls" because she really acts like a queen bee. GROW UP FUG NUGGETS!!
ReplyDeleteMendy, we can agree to disagree on Grace. I'm fine with that. Its just my own personal belief system at play here. If a horse has that spark and is wanting to live, I won't play God and end it as long as I know there is a chance of recovery. I have a very tough time making the euthanasia call in any instance, but I really couldn't live with myself if I put one down that wanted to try. Besides, I'm not sure I read that Grace is even all that old. She may very well have a good chance at a meaningful recovery. I look at it like when I broke my leg. I was in all kinds of agony (prior to the good drugs ;)), but I also knew that it was temporary. I think horses have that `knowing' too on some levels.
ReplyDeleteDisagreement aside, aren't horses amazing at their capacity to forgive and trust? Never ceases to amaze me....
lolasl
You know, I'd be inclined to agree with Mendy, but after reading this blog I think Grace may have more of a chance than anyone could expect: http://horseandman.com/horse-stories/amazing-grace-shocking-but-hopefully-help-arrived-on-time/
ReplyDeleteHere's hoping, especially since she has been picked up by a non-profit, and I don't like seeing non-profits try to rehab horses that don't have a reasonable chance at a good life.
Murder, really Cathy.
ReplyDeleteOkay...question. SOS=wonderfulrescuesendthemcash. I went to their site and they have a long list of horses that shipped to slaughter?! It would appear they are buying horses from a feedlot owner and 'adopting' aka selling them. Kind of like horse traders do. SOS is a non-profit, seeking donations, has hefty adoption fees, and somehow claims that they had some stake in the feedlot horses. That's kinda dishonest IMO.
ReplyDeleteRebels=Cathyattackslikearabidpitbull. They simply list horses that are already on the feedlot. They do this without needing or accepting donations. They're not asking for 'adoption' fees or anything else, so they're not claiming to be a 'rescue' and they're pretty poor horsetraders since they're not making any money, *yes, that would be sarcasm dripping from that sentence...*
And I noticed in one picture SOS has the square holed fencing that the rabids totally trashed the family with the cute diapered kid about, pics of kids up on horses without helmets and riding by themselves, all the stuff that gets members of the 'out' crowd stalked by crazies!
I'm NOT bashing SOS. I'm sure they're concerned about horses and trying to help them...unless the herd euth deal went through...
Now just WHY is one just dandy and the other not?! Could it be a personal vendetta on Cathy's part?
I think that Cathy's uneven treatment of rescues/owerns is more a case of "my friends can do no wrong, and have a good reason when they do" against "the rest of you all are idiots".
ReplyDeleteDon't forget that Cathy was a supporter and bought a horse from CBER way back when. SOS seems to operate in a similar fashion. I tend to think of them as feedlot brokers more than a rescue. I guess listing and harping on the horses that shipped to slaughter is supposed to force hands into sending money. While I hate the idea of any horse going to slaughter. I do realize for every one you pull off the truck, they put another on. The key is to get them before they get to the feedlot. Pulling them off the feedlot is doing nothing to reduce the numbers of being sent. I would never support a rescue that only focussed on the young and sound that can be turned for profit. That's a business model, not a rescue and I've said this before. Maybe Cathy is getting a kick-back from SOS and that's why what they do is ok and CBER and others are not?
ReplyDeletelolasl
Okay, anyone, anytime wants to 'Check Out' the Rebels, you are totally welcome and if I've 'screwed up', just let me know and I'll try to 'fix it'...At this point we are an All Volunteer unit advertising the 'Best' of the Feedlot horses, the Youngest and the Healthiest and the best trained -We are not a Rescue, we just assess and advertise, we don't solicit funds, we don't accept donations ( we have no way of dealing with money). If people see a Horse they want, they go to the Lot and buy it from the Owner..It's about as simple as it can be, and if Cathy Atkinson doesn't like it, she can just go 'spit up a rope'..The whole SOS thing is just sad and typical of the 'Rescue System' - Buy the oldest and the skinniest, and saddest horses at the cheapest possible price then beg for funds to support them...When the funds dried up, the horses were destroyed. It's heartbreaking, but it's easy enough to 'check-out' and all the Loud Voices on the Net can't change the numbers. IMO
ReplyDeleteWow, the owner of that palomina stallion may be my hero of the day. Good for him/her for letting them have it and pointing out how stupid they are. Of course, the fugly followers are harrassing and sending anon emails. That sure accomplishes a lot when you don't even have the guts to use your own name to confront somebody....
ReplyDeleteCathy is bitching about free jumping videos on horses and how useless it is. Well, sorry to inform her but that is exactly the way most young prospects are advertised and sold. It gives you a great insight into how athletic and `correct' a horse is capable of being naturally. You can't `fix' a horse that dangles their legs and knees or has poor form, and most are too young to be ridden over fences that big carrying the weight of a rider. You would think Cathy knew this considering `Working Hunter' is in the plans for BYC....
lolasl
Hiya Helen! You guys rock because you're dealing with the fact that the horses ARE on a feedlot. And they really are going to the slaughterhouse if no one buys them. The horse most likely to find a forever home is youngish, healthy and trained. Not fair, but a fact of life.
ReplyDeleteYes, rescues BUY the horses they select from the feedlots, and I think sending a young horse to it's death so that you can tug heartstrings and collect cash by buying a horse that will probably not live long is despicable. With a young healthy horse you're stuck with it for years and if you put it down out of the blue there would be an outcry. With old lame horses you can kill them 'under the radar' when the cash cow dries up. Kind of creepy when you think about it!
I'm to the point where I think the whole rescue modality is a sinking ship. I will spend my money to BUY a horse rather than the whole 'adoption' BS. That way I can choose the horse I think deserves care, and it's life will not be dependent on a board of directors that may or may not be sane. There is no accountability for the money the rescues collect. If I just buy some hay to feed a hungry animal I at least know that my money went directly to a horse instead of 'operating expenses' and director payroll.
I guess I'm despicable, because if I want a young horse, I'm probably going to go out and pay a lot of money for one and get one specific to what I am wanting to do with it. Old, infirm, sick, you name it, those are the types that tug at my heart strings the most as far as rescues go, so if I was running a rescue, that would probably be what I'd be rescuing the most of. That's not to say I don't think every horse deserves a chance, but I am drawn towards the underdog horses. I have never really thought about the fact that rescues could just euth the old ones to make room for more...that is a bit creepy. I guess I still have a hard time realizing how bad most people suck.... :( For now, the very best I can do is take good care of my own horses and keep working to support them. Both of the horses I own personally are `lifers'. One is nearly 30 and we've been together most of our lives. I do try to practice what I preach...
ReplyDeletelolasl
ChezSheep says:
ReplyDeleteSeptember 13, 2010 at 9:10 am
I’d say there certainly reasons to geld an awesome stallion. He might be awesome, but throw crappy foals. He might throw adequately nice babies, but has a sufficient number and there really isn’t a call for more. He might just be out of style and, awesome or not, no longer sought after by those with awesome mares.
In no way do I think gelding means “crappy”. It just means “not needed in the gene pool (anymore).”
Could she be referring to the BYC?
Not despicable at all lolasl! I'm truly sorry if I gave that impression. The breeders who raise and train good horses responsibly need to make money, too. And people who pick up that old basket case and give them a forever home are wonderful. People like you, who practice what they preach, are the type of human that any horse would be glad to own!
ReplyDeleteThe people that I think are despicable are the ones who don't practice what they preach. If sos did indeed put down 15 horses that were supposedly rescued from death, I find that creepy in the extreme.
The problem with rescue is that they depend on donated money. If the funds dry up they are just as vulnerable as any backyard breeder, hoarder, or (pick your label) that gets hounded for having more horses than they can feed. Sounds like the poor horses go from the frying pan into the fire.
Kestrel, that is my misunderstanding. That is very creepy. I also don't buy the whole `we gave them a better death' thing. The whole CBER Soot drama has bothered me for a long time. How did Cathy come to have that horse in her possession and what happened to it that was so bad she had to be destroyed? Cathy has not been overly forthcoming with information other than she has been abused too much to ever make `safe'. Safe for what? Riding, inflated price resale? I'm wondering if Cathy ever laid eyes on the horse and who paid for the euthanasia. Seems to me Cathy also collected donations to rescue Champagne til Dawn, yet were any of the people who donated given any say on euthanizing him? We have already heard from YHI that Cathy only saw the horse 3 times and very briefly. What made her able to make that call on him? We already know some horse can rise above horrendous xrayas and a crappy prognosis to live a good life. The fact is, his euthanasia coincided with Cathy getting busted for sleeping with the B.O's hubby and getting kicked off the ground. Just like her euthanizing a bunch of her old rescue mares coincidently was right around the time she moved to L.A. I'm thinking Lucy the TB rescue mare she can't seem to get rid of, her days are very numbered on this earth. Because, as you all know, if Cathy can't ride or train it, nobody else ever could because Cathy is such a pro and all....
ReplyDeletelolasl
OMG...She totally removed the lady with the golden palominos comments....& then this:
ReplyDelete"Sure. I mean, a meaningful ad would LIST his wins/places and at what shows. I think he is an OK horse. IF he had a show record, for real, I would be OK with him being a stallion. $75K? All I can say about is that I know what I can buy for $75K and that is not how I d choose to spend $75K if I were going to buy a horse for that kind of money! I mean, you can buy Donnerluck right now for $60K. Don’t know about you but I will take Donnerluck!" What an idiot? The lady with the palomino thinks he's a nice stallion and wants to cross him with 2 warm blood mares because she thinks they will make good eventers for her...she has no intention of selling them and she KEEPS every horse she has bred if she can't find a home. How do I know this, because I talked to her on the damn phone. She is intelligent, well spoken and is being very, very picky about WHERE the horse goes....this is so out of control UGH UGH UGH!!
I am not a vet but I saw Champagne Til Dawn at the auction and he was in very sad shape. The kindest thing to have done for him would have been to put him to sleep and not let him suffer any longer. As far as Soot, she was unhandled and had an injury, an old fracture to her RH. The kindest thing to have done for her would been to have put her to sleep. Cathy exploited these two horses for her own gain. Very sad indeed.
ReplyDeleteI constantly get a huge laugh at everyone's insistance that the world doesn't need any more mediocre horses and that only the best should be bred to the best.
ReplyDeleteWho the hell is going to ride these products of the best to the best?
Most people these days aren't good enough riders to even max out their 'mediocre' horse's talents, much less handle trying to train or ride 'the best'.
Look at fugly...She claims to gallop polo ponies...does she play the game? Ummm...No.
She claims that she can start horses under saddle...Does she even have the capability to train a horse to an open show level? Uhhh...apparently not.
She is constantly going on and on about what a wonderful disposition her stallion has...Why isn't she showing him in the Amature classes if he is so wonderful and docile and easy to get along with and so naturally talented?
From the comments left by her followers on her 'Fat' post...it doesn't sound like many of her followers even actually do much riding.
Who are these people to be telling everyone else what they should be breeding?
Most of them it doesn't even sound like can ride the 'fuglys' they have. What the heck would they ever do with a top of the line performance horse?
And that whole, oh the washouts can go on and be family horses, crap...Really? Just because these horses cannot win does not mean they automatically have the personalities to become 'family' horses and more often than not, they are still too much horse for the average weekend rider.
It never fails to astound me that people like fugly and her followers...people who have accomplished exactly NOTHING in the equestrian world, think their 'opinions' actually hold any weight whatsoever with people who are actually out there and doing things with their horses.
Oh shoot-thought I was signed in...Comment above is mine.
ReplyDeleteBEC
Where to start. Hate to beat a dead horse but going back to BYC conformation. My guess based on photos and video is that he may be wither high or dead "even" with the point of his croup when standing flat but I think I have a mare JUST like him. If it is so, the horse I have has a very weak loin connection. this means the area right behind the saddle and directly in front of the sacro-iliac region tends to slope away or sag due to lack of muscle. This is a common conformational fault and these horses even if built "uphill" always appear to move in a downhill manner and tend to push their legs way out behind them. Add in straight stifles and you get a horse who is very out behind (does not bend his hocks and draw his hind leg up under the middle of his belly) which will push him on the forehand and further perpetuate the "downhill" appearance. So if we want to get into semantics I would say a lot of horses are built "uphill" but not all uphill horses MOVE uphill and many downhill horses can be trained to move uphill BUT BUT BUT they MUST have a powerful weight bearing hind end to overcome a shorter front leg. These are facts not opinions. If you want to find an uphill horse look at the gaskins or "forearms" of the horse. Any horse with longer rear gaskins than front gaskins is going to have more troubles lifitng its shoulder and elevating the front end. Also necks that tie in higher up on the chest usually travel more "uphill". Also another little tidbit when a horse is termed long backed they are talking about length of loin. Long weak loins are not something to breed for. Short moderately muscled are best. Here is a link to a very weak loined long backed fellow. http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/1/0/6/8/6/000_1126.JPG If he was standing level for the photo I think we could all agree that his withers are the highest point, but looking at length of forearms and the tilting of the pelvis backwards this horse would be very happy to travel on the forehand. Whereas this famous stallion,http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallions/negro/1.jpg has a very strong loin and strong back with a very uphill build as well as being an uphill mover.
ReplyDeleteSide note I wonder if this is all part of her sick plot. Pretend to be a hypocrite get all this attention and web traffic in people fighting over BYC and in the end he is just a pawn that she was always planning to geld. Hence the no name trainer and going to lame shows. I hope the joke is not all on us in the end, make her famous for the longest running social experiment ever! Too much for my wee brain!
This photo in particular seems to hint at this type of conformation, along with the yearling photos. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Yelm-WA/Cedar-Hill-Training-Center/176069282617?v=photos&ref=ts#!/photo.php?pid=3945745&id=176069282617&ref=fbx_album
ReplyDeleteBEC, don't try to confuse us by presenting the facts! *LOL*
ReplyDeleteBEC-
ReplyDeleteYou are so right. I know a few people who have (supposedly) upper end horses that they use for semi-passable trail horses. And yet they'll drop a reminder once in a while about their high-falutin' horse. If the horse isn't doing what makes it worth the big bucks, then they're not getting their money's worth. And like you said, these riders don't have the skill to make their horses perform at the level that the horse might be able work. So I bite my tongue or laugh. We all have different visions. The world would be a dull place if we all wanted the same thing.
And I've gotten my rear kicked at open shows by grade horses.
Thanks to Anon@1:24AM(???? did someone forget to take her Ambien?) for more intelligent discussions on conformation. I don't think there can be too much of that.
Re the photo of Cathy riding in pull-on shoes, no helmet and leaning forward with her arms wrapped aroung her horse's neck: I'm sure if I did a short amount of searching through her blog, I would find someone that she's bashing for doing the exact same thing.
BEC...
ReplyDeleteYou got a standing ovation from me!!!! You nailed it so right you have no idea. Forget the only breed winners attitude but I am so so so proud of you to call out Cathy in the area of "galloping polo ponies" and "starting under saddle". I have seen ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that she actually does either of these. If BOTH are true, then why is SHE not the one riding BYC. Even in a schooling show??? She has admitted to being afraid of going on a trail ride which quite frankly is how we train our horses. Once they have the lounge mastered and have basic control under their belts, we hit the trail. For example, we started Maddie a 3 yr old out of BLM mustang (mama dropped a surprise foal on the owner & they didn't want her so they sent her to our ranch) this summer. Her student trainer rode her for 2 weeks solidly in the pen and arena and then one day took her out on the trail ponying behind her horse. About thirty minutes into the ride, she passed her horse off to another rider and took those reins, swung up on Maddie and rode her for 2 hours. Maddie was unsure & jumped at things but by the time we were heading home, she was nicely walking along. That was in late June. Last weekend, she was used by a student in a for a trail class training session. Maddie did great!! Over tarps, crossing a bridges, pivot in a box, over a cavelletti To me she has proven herself. And yes, she would be considered by Cathy & her cronies as fugly. Her head is way too big for her body. She's a solid sorrel with a white blaze, rough mane and big feet. We won't ever breed Maddie because we don't breed and that giant head is so hideous. And the young lady who helped train her is now using Maddie full time because her horse injured his flexor tendon and is off for about 6 mos. How much would you say Maddie is worth?? Her price is far above that of rubies and gold for she priceless to a little girl who needs a horse. :) <3Mendy
I'm the proud owner of one of those well bred specialty horses. He is the world's worst trail horse. I have ridden and camped in the mountains with my QH, but my big warmblood just isn't cut out to be on the trail. He spooks, refuses to change surfaces (ie cross a road), freezes up and is generally a miserable ride that may or may not decide to buck you off at any given time. No amount of riding is ever going to make him a good trail horse and I'm far too old to hit the turf when he decides he isn't appreciating nature like I do. Its just not important to me that he masters this discipline. However, he's very good in the ring and wonderful at what he is bred to do. He absolutely floats and is the prettiest moving horse I've ever owned. He's lucky I own him as there isn't a lot of call for his type around here and most people want their horses to at least be able to hack out the odd time. He's a typical example of a well bred horse that wouldn't make a trail horse or a kid's horse if he washed out at what he was bred for. In fact, his previous owner was hauling him to slaughter the day I bought him because he had her off one too many times and she felt he was too unpredictable to sell to somebody who may get hurt. I had some chiropractor work done on him and started him over from scratch and have had very little issues. I just have no desire to fight with a 17.2HH horse out on the trail. We tried it a few times and we were both miserable. I have other horses I can take out on the rare occasion I feel like it. He will never be sold on again and I love him to pieces. He's not making big bucks, nor will I ever show him at the level he was bred to be shown and from what we have heard, already did show at, but he's a happy guy and I love riding him and schooling him. He's really fine tuned my skills because I actually have to ride and pay attention rather than just sit back and push buttons like I did on my old QH (who I also trained, so I don't feel guilty about that LOL). He's also still listed as a stallion on his registry (which I really have to get changed) and I have had a rare random inquiry about him just based on his bloodline alone. He's was a gelding when the previous owner bought him. He's absolutely well bred enough and well built enough to be a stallion, but he obviously wasn't a world beater and somebody made the good choice to geld him before he was 5ys old. He is a wonderful gelding.
ReplyDeletelolasl
Coffee up nose, BEC! Indeed, who's going to ride them! Show horses are not Mendy's sweet Maddie types. They are specialized for their classes, and the desired class traits, well...
ReplyDeleteFor instance, the hot, reactive Arabs in today's halter classes are NOT going to make a good saddle horse for an amateur. If they did...we'd be seeing a lot of them. Do we? Hmmmm....well no. Those horses are bred with not only a specific body type, but a special brain type. They must work themselves up into a frenzy quickly, tolerate abuse by getting hysterical instead of attacking, and a conformation suited to rearing is a bonus. Jump right on. Yeah.
I've never understood the show arab thing, but I do think those classes where they just turn them loose and play music are kinda funny. Maybe Cathy could take BYC to Arab shows next and get some more `points'.
ReplyDeleteShe admits in the VLC blog he went to his first two shows and never got a placing. Then she says they were only open schooling shows and he was only doing walk/trot pleasure. Then he wins his first out at a buckskin show in novice wp or something. That says to me that the level of competition at the buckskin show is not even as tough as an open schooling show. Also, I know of no other professional AQHA trainer that hauls to open saddle club shows to `school'. Some may haul the horse to a few shows and not show them, but ride them in the warm up ring to get them used to the atmosphere etc, but pretty much they step into the ring the very first time ready to win or at least give it a good shot. Why would you pay somebody to drag your horse around to saddle club shows? Those are supposed to be the kind of fun shows you do yourself and not get all jammed up about it. Cathy blogged and sicked her followers on that girl that went in the novice class and won (by mistake, she didn't mean to be judged), yet I think dragging your professional trainer and paying somebody to ride your horse in that type of show is equally as shitty. At least the girl rode her own horse....what is Cathy's excuse? Cathy even admitted to being a great big old poor sport about not winning...I guess if you set your goals low enough, you can be assured of getting close to them....Call me a snob, but when I was showing, I was in there to win each and every time. I obviously didn't always win, but I think you need to have the attitude to win consistently. Big bunch of BS for Cathy's trainer to say `we weren't trying to win'. Do your training at home or in the warm-up ring!
lolasl