So my color post really was becoming much to hard to set up, but I do have a nice site you guys can go to and look over yourself. Horse colors probably aren't as complicated when presented in other ways, but I've never seen somebody do that. So until that happens, you're stuck with this.
In other news, it's fall. The air is cool and crisp, and one nasty little ditty may be lurking about for some horses. It's influenza season, and horse owners should be on the lookout for the common signs and symptoms. "Clinical signs seen with influenza include fever, anorexia, depression, coughing, and some horses appear to have muscle soreness. In the severe cases, horses can develop a generalized vasculitis which appears as swelling of the limbs, inflammation of the heart resulting in a high heart rate and inflammation of the eye with tearing and squinting."
For those of you who vaccinate for this, ensure you assess the potential health risks and susceptibility before doing so. Also consider the varying strains common to your area before you do so as well.
Any of you taking on a rescue case this Fall? Better yet, how many of us potentially will end up with a horse we didn't intend to? Remember the phrase "Killing with kindness?" One study showed that 9 of 45 horses died after being placed with a responsible owner after going through a period of severe malnutrition.
If the horse isn't in the best of conditions, it is highly advised you go talk to a trusted vet to get you on track to begin rehabbing the horse and feeding it properly as it increases in weight and condition. 3-5 months is normal for a horse to return to full and proper condition, so don't be freaking out if it doesn't happen the first month (though it can with some.) I've included 3 different files in source and reference to this post. The one I liked the most for the public is the one from the University of Tennessee. It contain a great list of questions that you should know the answer to when taking a rescue horse to the vet for the first time, as well as when you should be considering euthanasia as an option. It also has great guidelines to follow if you are unable to get the horse checked by the vet in due time. Definitely something I'd print out and have around JIC.
Sorry about the short, very linked, post. It's been chaos here. Hopefully this will give you guys a plethora to talk about in the meantime! I just think this time of year is important to a horse, as winter is coming and it becomes extra important they get the extra groceries they need to maintain weight through the winter. Remember, winter coats are deceiving! Personal preference is a horse to go in a little (LITTLE) overweight than a little underweight if weight is the problem child. If fat is the issue, vegetable oil can work wonders. Just remember to add a little bit at a time, otherwise your horse will get the runs and in a time where they drink less water that is not a good thing! I'd recommend starting out with a 1/4 cup maximum and work your way up to a cup or so. That's my little ditty for the day. Enjoy!
1. Influenza source
2. Rescue Feeding source
3. Tennessee - Feeding the starved horse
4. Extra nutrition info
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Loved the color links!
ReplyDeleteI like mine on the elephant hook. meme
ReplyDeleteCS...Great link on feeding the starved horse...we are dealing with a poor baby..its a boarder's horse...not only was he starved but he was full of worms, covered in rain rot, teeth not floated and he started cribbing after being left without food for an extended period of time. He was and mess and is still a mess. He literally will refuse to eat his hay or grain in lieu of wind sucking anything he can put his mouth on. We would have to leave a cribbing collar on him constantly because it doesn't matter where he is, he will crib. He even once tried to crib on the electric fence. That is the only thing he won't crib on and we have to keep the gate to his paddock "hot". Shelter...ummm yeah..he ate it. He's fed 5x a day and has not only lots of grass but a round bale. He wears a feed bag to eat or he just won't. It's awful and so sad. We are trying but with winter approaching, our boarder has begun contemplating putting him down & buying a horse that is not quite a mess. I don't mind the hard work with caring for him because I really like him...A LOT but the idea of trying to maintain his weight and deal with all his issues with a hard winter forecasted is just not my idea of a good time. Suggestions?
ReplyDeleteLady Evie Grey, is this littel fellow on a pro biotic, or better yet Daimond yeast (brewers yeast is a "pre biotic") helps to regulate the gut , reduces issues with ulcers and or diahrea and stimulate appetite.
ReplyDeleteFV not awake yet
Lady, that's a tough call. Starvation in babies often leads to neurological damage, and the baby may very well also have a permanently damaged intestinal tract from all the worms. With all the cribbing I would follow FV's advice and suggest adding a tranquilizer like B-Calm (sp?), or another of the herbal ones, or talk to the vet about prescription meds to calm and reduce pain. I find that cribbing is often a sign of internal pain, and usually as much physical as mental. There are some studies that link chronic cribbing with gut spasms, and certain bloodlines of horses are more susceptible. Also, I think some animals that have been stunted grow so fast that their bones and muscles hurt.
ReplyDeleteI'm remembering a 6 year old starved mare that was so frantic that she's run around with hay in her mouth and forget to chew. Out of desperation we added beer to her food on an old vet's advice, I can morning and 1 can at night. (Owner got a little too excited about the fact she calmed down and started gaining weight, added more beers, she got drunk, 6 beers will do that...she sobered up with no after affects...) but the poor girl came out of the freakazoids, gained weight, and lived to be 38.
The one color I didn't see mentioned was grulla. And I have to disagree with what the website says about gray being a "modifier" not a color and that a horse gets more gray as they get older. Grulla and gray are most definitely colors, and if we go by what the website says they are "variations of black"
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ReplyDeleteIt actually does mention grulla. It's in the dun section.
ReplyDeleteThey called gray a pattern, though it is more correctly termed a modifier. A modifier is a gene that modifies the effect of the other. The gray gene dominates whatever genes it interacts with, and eventually grays them out until they do turn to a mostly gray color.
I also never saw anywhere it said that it was a variation of black. It states in the examples that bays and chestnuts have a rose gray color. It also has examples of different genes interacting with each other under the explanation. For some colors, they do have to have to be interacting with the black gene. You are also talking about a basic color gene. It's probably going to be there whether many like it or not. Without one of the basic genes, you aren't going to get a lot of colors. It's either chestnut or black.
Did anyone even notice????
ReplyDeleteFrom Fugs twitter:
"Blog's back up, sorry about that, guys! I paid a vet bill and forgot the blog was due to automatic-bill. Automatic-bill FAIL on my part!"
What a moron.
What a great color site! I love how they did the basics and then kept adding modifiers as you get deeper into the site. Made it much easier for me to understand. Thanks CS!
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know how much it costs for a blog?
ReplyDeleteOH! I found out something new that I didn't think was listed on the color site. Agouti does not affect chestnut horses, only black. However, chestnuts can carry the gene for it.
ReplyDeleteAs for hosting blogs, Go Daddy's most expensive domain plan is 13 bucks a month when it's not on sale like it is now. Now exactly a wallet buster.
13$ !!!!! What ever happened to 6 months expenses or get rid of your horse?! She boards them, and that's not cheap. Oh. Unless you're mooching off friends. You would think she'd be nice to the friends who take care of her stock, instead of being nice to their husbands. Guess the guy didn't turn out to be a sugar daddy...?!
ReplyDeleteI loved all the modifiers paired with the variety of colors they produce on the genetics site. The refeeding articles were also incredibly informative. The one thing I don't like about the 10 point Heineke scale is that it really doesn't stress what is going on with the internal problems that accompany each checkpoint. A horse at 7 is usually in a lot more danger than a horse at 3, or has some health problems like insulin resistance or Cushing's.
There is some kind of fustercluck on Auction Horses involving Fubbs here...
ReplyDeletehttp://auctionhorses.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sold&action=display&thread=3625&page=2
And where is the outing of the owners and trainers and all involved w/ these horses? Hateful much Fubbs? Its OK for Ron but not for the Rebels lot to have TB's? You single handedly have killed 100's of them after posting this
http://fuglyblog.com/?p=1885
Each and every week another truck heads off to Canada... RIP to all TB's Cathy Atkinson has killed since April when Chuck quit listing them.
Sadly, Cathy will never accept that she does more harm than good. Going after the breeders of a horse years after they have had ownership of a horse is ridiculous. Like it or not, there are and will continue to be some people that make a good living breeding horses. The majority of the breeders I know (TBs and QH) are very responsible and absolutely would help a horse they formerly owned, but to call them out and sick your gang of misinformed harpies on them is doing more harm than good. Because of things like this, people tend to not take animal advocates or rescues very seriously. Cathy needs to remember that the majority of the people making a living from horses do so because they love the animal....it sure as hell isn't easy money or a way to a quick buck...
ReplyDeletelolasl
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ReplyDeleteA few months after I started reading Cathy (about 3 or 4 years now, before she morphed into an attack blogger), she posted about how breeders should take back horses the way cat breeders take back cats. I think this was well intentioned rather than well though out. First cats aren't horses. An eight pound cat doesn't take up to much space or eat too much food. make that 125 cats (8*125=1,000) a person must take back it they just bred a horse ONCE, it's a bit different. Most breeders do breed more than once.
ReplyDeleteI always wanted to know how the finances would work out. I bred a horse 15 years ago, and now the current owners want to ship her back to me. She has just foundered. They don't want her any more. Why should I have the burden of taking back that horse?
Second scenario breeder sells me a horse that they don't believe will do well. I take horse find an strength she has that the breeder didn't see. (for instance, a Park saddlebred horse has an unexpected talent for 3 day eventing) Should the breeder be able to come back after the horse? 3 day eventing is inherently more dangerous showing in Park classes. I've yet to see a rotational fall in Park class. But is it abuse? If the breeder _has_ to take back any horse the flip side is the breeder _gets_ to take back any horse.
Golightly recently I was looking for a horse and someone asked me what color I wanted. I must have goggled at them because the quickly said. "You don't care about color do you?"
Um ,no. No, I don't. I want soundness, manners, and talent. If I get a fantasy stable I'll fill it with blood bays and flaxen horses. But I don't really care.
Kaede:
ReplyDeleteI had your second scenario happen to me concerning the BYB from which I bought my Jack. She sold him to me for $200 because she had sold his mama the day before (after the sheriff delivered her an ultimatum...she had penned off a corner of the golf course she lived on and had 6 horses on 1/2 acre of "community land"...I kid you not!) I was the only person to show any interest in him. She had wanted $2500 for the mare who was bred back and Jack at side. She sold the mare for $1950 but then asked me to pay $1500 for him. (how's that for price gouging) When she got to $400 on the phone I loaded up and headed out. I told her I would give her $100 down and $100 when I got his papers. Her exact words were "I don't care. Just get the worthless ugly fucker out of here." Jack was a grand son of Hanka Chief on the top side and a Colonel Freckles, Playboy on the bottom. Three years later, she saw me and my worthless ugly horse at a horse show. He stood a true 17.2hh and weighed over 1500 pounds. She demanded and then ordered me to "sell him back to her for what I paid because I tricked her". Really, a malnourished, unhalter broke stud colt hard weaned with no papers in hand at the time of sale and unsure of his breeding and I tricked her. Sorry folks, you sell a horse you are NOT responsible for it and the breeders can't come back and say "oh I want him because he's now terrific"
Kestrel....we gave Bobby a beer this morning and then again this evening. He actually stood and merrily chomped every last flake of hay. The only time he stopped was when a combine came by and freak him out. He ran to the end of his paddock and then came trotting right back to his hay. He did not stand around looking for a place to crib and we were out there for about 4 hrs this evening, he was happily munching away. I went and bought a case of Budweiser this evening. Maybe he just needed a good buzz :)
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ReplyDeleteAnyone notice Fugs has been really quiet lately? Like, her 3 newest ones haven't really been anything of consequence.
ReplyDeleteHA HA HA CS...do you mean like "oh tee hee i said balls in public and people looked at me" whatever....woman has the social grace of a warthog and that's insulting to the species
ReplyDeleteI think she's treading lightly because people are holding up the BS paddle.....
I cannot wait for life to slow down enough to finish the "convoy" video....there will be a tribute to our fugster and it WILL be posted on youtube....nothing malicious or maiming....just the facts and then some lovely pics of convoy and his oh so flat knees and quiet manner....not mention he's GOLD baby...forget old yeller...we got us some serious color LOL
I wonder If she is treading lightly because of the cyber bullying case out of Rutgers.
ReplyDeleteI have been told that she has received a few letters from people in the legal field!
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ReplyDeleteleg that is so cool!!!! Anything to break the pain stress fear stress pain fear cycle. Keep me posted on him, he sounds like a cute boy. With the crazy mare it seemed to work like a tranquilizer, allowing her brain to unlock. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and we had reasoned that the alcohol was less likely to do damage than some of the routine medications we give them.
ReplyDeleteIt's good that people like fubb get called out themselves. Bullies are the bane of the universe.
Looks like Cathy got herself in trouble. From her blog today....
ReplyDelete"In case it is flagged, here is the text. Be adults (even if you aren’t) and don’t crank call the owner. Only call if you’re serious about offering a home and can keep your temper in check. Anything else is pointless and likely to help the horses get onto a double-decker faster. You can’t fix stupid and you CAN get in trouble with the law if you are perceived as making threats or harassing someone. Don’t be even dumber than the dude who can’t feed his horses."
lolasl
I'm now going to go shower several times as I feel unclean for reading over there...
- yet there is still name-calling from the always-presumptuous Fubbs.
ReplyDeleteWho knows what kind of hard times this Josh dude has fallen into?
Does Fubbs even know the guy?
Her little ankle-biting sheeples are foaming at the mouth over this.
As usual.
lolasl, forget the shower. Let's all set up camp under a waterfall, for the dirt just keeps coming.
Nevermind the fact his horses appeared to be well fed and healthy looking. Warmblood/QH cross might not actually be a bad foal IF that mare is pregnant. I don't agree with leaving the one horse a stud, but he may be more nutworthy than BYC. Cathy really has no place telling anybody to geld their POS until she does her own.
ReplyDeleteNot sure of what `Josh's' financial issues are, but the guy is trying to sell his horses cheaply. I'm sure there are far worse crimes out there. He seems to be doing just what she shrieks at people to do. Get rid of the horses you can't afford before you can't afford to feed them. Does she do nothing but cruise craigslist all across the country every day?
lolasl
Frankly owners trying to find horses homes before they knew it's going to get bad is 100% more responsible than those who wait until they are dropping weight.
ReplyDeleteAnd who is to say it's cheap by today's standards? Those horses may be very well be for sale at the price they are worth. $100 bucks may very well be it. For all we know her daddy was Frisky Dingo and her momma was Easy Peasy. I may have made the names up, but by golly you probably wouldn't know who they were if they were real and on papers.
I agree 100%. Really, from what I see in her blog and that add, this man's biggest crime is not pricing his horses high enough and not gelding his yearling? The horse world must be all better if this person is the best she can dig up to bitch about...
ReplyDeletelolasl
Anon 11:14 p.m. on the 7th:
ReplyDeleteTell us more! Don't leave us hanging!
~Dk
I had to go back and read that post. Move over, lolasl, I need that shower too. Man, I'd love to get that mare.
ReplyDelete~DK May have a possible lead to a good trail horse and will find out in a few weeks, yippee!
PS: My captcha was logricks. I don't know why that struck me so funny!
After reading that particular blog post, I was reminded so strongly of high schoolers/college kids with raging hormones. "OMG there is a stallion in a paddock with a mare! They'll have sex and she'll get pregnant" Um, only if she is receptive. Who knows, she may be his mama and they are kept separate only when she is in heat. Since the horses are so fuzzy, it is doubtful that the mare is cycling. Not impossible, but doubtful.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing is all the posters say they could afford another horse, if they had a place to keep them. "After all it's only a hundred dollars a month." Who knows, the owner may have to move, lost the lease on the field board, the price of the board gone up substantially, whatever. That will put the horses into a boarding situation. That $100.00 a month will quickly become $600.00 a month. A big difference which many people couldn't afford.
The give a horse a beer is an old thing around here, and I've had it work for some - we always used stout - a dark beer. I'm just beginning to wonder how much I would have to give to one of my rehab kittens to calm her down a bit! (We got her and her brother from the SPCA - they had been abused and had spent a month in foster care, and we've just had to finish the work already started off - but the wee girl is quite anxious, so maybe I could give her a few drops of beer tonight!! (joking)
ReplyDeleteWhen sows won't let the piglets nurse, an old trick is to tube her and "get 'er drunk." Basically, you did it until she lies down and lets the piglets nurse.
ReplyDeleteThe things you learn from the professors on campus.
fugs is back in HI. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteif you guys want a good laugh (by someone who seems to have THEIR head on straight)...
ReplyDeletehttp://idiotsoftheplanet.blogspot.com/
(sorry, I can't do the link thingy...)
Ok...here's one from her blog:
ReplyDeleteSweetPea says:
October 8, 2010 at 9:31 pm
I’m with you Fugly. It does NOT cost that much to feed a few horses through the winter… why was this guy not trying to find a home for them at the beginning of summer? Oh yeah, I forgot. Had to get some use out of her before dumping that sweet mare for $100. *gag*
It absolutely DOES cost that much to properly feed your horses through the winter...GRASS is not available in places that actually have real live winter....ya know, snow on the ground, ice, heated water troughs....our hay prices go up, our grain prices go up....our electric bill goes up running the heated troughs and bucket heaters, hell even laundry costs go up because of washing the blankets after a heavy snow or when the horses roll in the melting snow mud.
What fantasy world do these people live in???? Shit, I'm pouring beer on a horses feed, adding supplements, making sure he has hay all the time in front of him, and it hasn't gotten down past 50 degrees yet. What the hell are we in for when winter hits??
Forget the waterfall, we need the ocean to wash all the BS away
EvieGray, buy the Keystone! It's cheap and your horse will be as smooth as Keith Stone! Then you can spring for a Corona at Christmas with all the money you save. This is how it works over here at Review!
ReplyDeleteAhahahah CS! Keith Stone rocks!
ReplyDelete~DK
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ReplyDeleteI read the comments over at FHOTD and stopped when a girl asked which vet college in OK one of them was talking about.
ReplyDeleteThere's only one in the state, and I know of no states that have two. That brain trust needs a little more investment, me thinks.
Re: Fugs. It never ceases to amaze me how people (& trolls) think they can leave accountability and basic courtesy at the door when they enter the internet. AND they think they can randomly scapegoat some (probably unaware) person, even post their picture (or maybe the link for a legitimate ranch) and not suffer legal repercussions.
ReplyDeleteI'm also offended at the way she (& her minions) have attacked people in the past who were on websites far removed from her's, asking legitimate questions -- and she copies and pastes their questions and then sarcastically chews them up. Who does this help?! The horses?!
And I don't mean to pick on just her. It's not like there aren't other shining examples of internet stupidity out there. ;p
I don't get fugly - first she says people should rehome their horses before they get starved, then when someone does she slams them??
ReplyDeleteHell, I went through redundancy earlier this year,"emergency cat vet visit $" to pay the bills. I'm sorted with a new job now, but if I had horses, and was going into winter and in financial trouble, you could bet I'd be selling them while they were still in good shape. It is acutally the responsible thing to do!
Dee said "I don't get fugly - first she says people should rehome their horses before they get starved, then when someone does she slams them??"
ReplyDeleteThis bugs me about Cathy. The logical inconsistency of her blogs. Dog alone know why this fellow can't afford to feeds his horses. But he owned up to not being able too.
I don't know how much the KB are buying for at this point. But if they can get a $50.00 horse at auction that is well fed, why buy this one? At least this person is trying to get folk in and look, that gives him better choice of who does buy. It doesn't sound like the 2 YO has had much work, but has been started under saddle. That is suppose to be a good thing in her book. Sounds like he has a good temperament too.
See "The Perfect Horse" blog at http://theperfecthorse.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteFugly's post has been featured as the October 9th entry.
-Paddy
Oh look it only took the rescue queen 2 mo to even see this horse she got from the auction. I wonder if she has paid for the haul or board yet?
ReplyDeleteHighfalutin Fox - (342, Aug.10) & Lucy (Aug. 08)
« Thread Started on Oct 5, 2010, 2:40pm »
I finally met Foxy yesterday. She is just a sweetheart. Very mellow, loved peppermint treats once she figured out they were food. Does not know how to pin her ears. She is out with a little bay Arabian that was also rescued from the sale and they are hanging out. This weekend she is moving to the Tri-Cities to live with Lucy and Karen V's rescues.
The pictures aren't great but she's really friendly so I had to back way up to get a full body shot without just getting her nose, lol.
Read more: http://auctionhorses.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ourhorses&action=display&thread=3611#ixzz11v5GLJSc
Beer...calming effect on horses...how do you give a horse a beer? I have a spaz and I really need to know... is it used as a top dressing? Do burps cause gas colic?
ReplyDeleteYou simply mix it into their feed. I cannot imagine it would bring about gas colic, as that is predominately in the large intestine. The gas released should pass back up without much issue. If you are using it to get a horse to eat, you just want to make sure they don't go into food overload. Too much in the stomach is more of the issue than anything else.
ReplyDeletethanks, CS! I'll try it on the spaz tomorrow!
ReplyDeleteI'd say just do a can. Frankly the beer thing is making me want to give it to my own horse. There are days when I swear that horse needs it...
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ReplyDeleteGL I think what the post is about is how fugly is always preaching that horse care is so important etc etc and yet she never even see's her's?? Anon 7:39? Correct me if Im wrong but this blog is to review Fugly?
ReplyDeleteI didn't think that Anon@7:39 was out of line either.
ReplyDelete-k
I agree, it is called Fugly Review of the Day, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteI just checked out http://verylargecolt.wordpress.com/
ReplyDeleteand read fugly's reasons to geld the VLC. She actually sounds reasonable, even though the post is a bit defensive. That's the type of blog that I first started following, not the crazed attack b**ch that she's turned into.
I'm not sure I agree with her that greed is the cause of barn blindness. The breeders I know view their breeding operation as a very expensive hobby/obsession! Most breeders that I know actually really truly believe that they have a great animal that deserves to pass it's genetics forward. I'd rather see the diversity that comes with many crosses, than a bazillion AI's to the 'perfect' animal that may turn out to have a hidden flaw. And yes, I think Impressive should have taught us all a lesson. Diversity is good.
My my, I just read today's FHotD blog. She has linked to Thomas Paine's Corner an "anarcho-veganist" blog. Here is their description of themselves:
ReplyDelete"Thomas Paine’s Corner (TPC), founded on March 10, 2005 by Jason Miller, is dedicated to ending the unnecessary suffering of oppressed and exploited sentient beings and to the total liberation of human animals, nonhuman animals, and the Earth. While TPC is eclectic, holistic, and open to different perspectives, it approaches anti-capitalism and total liberation from an essentially anarcho-veganist position, as portrayed in the graphic above by the juxtaposition of the Boy Scout--a victim of one of the indoctrinating mechanisms for our imperialist, patriarchal, faux Christian, corporatist, statist, speciesist society--against the anarchist symbol, which represents democracy, decentralization, mutually respectful individual sovereignty, egalitarianism, direct action, and mutual aid."
I find this hysterical considering she is a self described Regan Republican. Strange bedfellows indeed.
I find the picture on that blog of the "decomposing horse" hilarious. It is CLEARLY, CLEARLY a downed tree. The fact that horse people are yelling decomposing carcass is damn funny. There are NO bones and don't tell me varmints have run off with all the bones. HA HA HA HA HA HA
ReplyDeleteKestrel, thanks for posting the VLC blog. Cathy does sound reasonable in that posting. I feel sorry for Cathy, it must be hard to watch a dream die.
ReplyDeleteI didn't get the feeling she wanted to play pick-up games of polo with VLC, I though she was looking at team penning or trail riding. I never liked polo the times I played it, but I don't like playing hockey either.
Wait, she's gelding him because he goes lame at a little knock in the foot, but she wants to go play polo on him? Then she wants to take him to more shows even though she said his show career is done and over with? What?
ReplyDeleteDid she also think she accomplished anything western wise with him other than getting him broke on a basic level? I've never seen that horse collected, which I'm pretty sure is essential to showing.
I'm totally stoked he's finally getting his nuts cut off. That was long overdue, but I still think she's in a world of denial.
Umm, just so you all will know sentience shouldn't be confused with sapience. Sentience is defined as the ability to perceive or feel. That's it. A cockroach is sentient. Sapience is the ability to act with appropriate judgment. Most vertebrates (and a few non vertebrates, think octopus, shark, honeybee, praying mantis) are sapient.
ReplyDeleteA further umm, I study the difference between sentience and sapience in the Artificial Intelligence world. Lots of computers are sentient. Think of the skitterbots from last year. The can perceive where a wall is or where each other are, but they are only following their programing not making judgments. Sapience means adjusting your "programming" to a changing environment. All the skitterbots can do is back away from walls and go in a pre programed direction. If in an open area they just go forward. They might curve a bit if they are taking uneven strides.
ReplyDeleteFrom the VLC Blog, "he’s leading the nation in breeding stock pinto halter stallions (true, amusingly enough)…"
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, what?
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ReplyDeleteI think I understand GoLightly concern. It's one thing to be commenting on FHotD blog and Cathy's irrationalities there, and something quite different to be actively hunting her down in her private life and snarking about what goes on there.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the line? Cathy has made herself a public figure by hunting down private individuals and holding them up to ridicule and encouraging cyber (and not so cyber) bullying. If Cathy can hunt down private individuals and declare they aren't meeting her standards, shouldn't she be held to her own standards?
The other night I was thinking about Helen and her listing service for horses in a KB pen. Was Cathy trying to do the same thing on the post about "Dumping for the winter"? just trying to list horses but in a mean, nasty, hateful way? She did say only contact the seller if they could buy the horse.
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ReplyDeleteAs someone who has been personally victimized by Cathy and her cronies due to her blog..remember my name was on a coggins of a horse that ended up in that OK wreck. I didn't put him nor any of the others on that trailer and yet I got death threats in the mail and if you feel like going back and checking out all the filthy names Cathy called me, feel free. I NEVER contacted Cathy nor posted on her blog. What good would it do? However, I do contact the people she needlessly attacks so that they are not blindsided by a phone call threatening to "slit your throat like the horse you put on that trailer was going to get" Cathy hides behind her blog yelling "freedom of speech" and riles up the masses with the mob mentality. I don't call her or email her or harass her because I do not choose to lower myself to that level. I do feel Cathy should be held to her own standards however. If she posts a lie online then someone should call her out. If you live in a glass house.......I just don't have the time nor interest to do it. Won't change her bad behavior
ReplyDeleteI didnt hunt her down nor do I give a shit about her private life after YHI's accounts of her screwing her husband EEEK!! In fact I am fugly free as I no longer read her bullshit.
ReplyDeleteWhat I did was go to the Auction Board to look at happy updates and came across the one made by Cathy for Highfalutin Fox and read it in total disbelief. After all she nominated Bill and Joanie Dinsdale for asshats of the year for taking their horses to auction. Taking horses to auction isnt against the law.
She also preaches to the choir of idiots (her followers) on checking hoofs etc etc and yet her horses are spread out across 3 states And this one Foxy she had never even seen. So just my Fugly Review
I have personally been attacked by her and her minions in the rescue world so therefore I do have a beef w/ her.
Kaede,
ReplyDeleteIt's true that Cathy is a "self described Regan Republican", but she is one who does not vote or pay taxes. She has not filed a tax return in at least 17 years. She works on a 1099 and does not file. That is why she can afford to do what she does. She sponges off friends for a place to live, works on a 1099 and does not pay taxes. If she has trouble making ends meet, she just "finds things that are not lost", and sells them on craigslist. In fact she has done this so long, that when she was my "friend" and she was 40 she was not yet eligible for social security because she had not worked enough reportable quarters.
YHI
JustsayingFubb, if you would like inside information about Cathy feel free to email me at shellythehorsenut@msn.com. I know more about her personally and about her involvement in PNW rescue than anyone.
ReplyDeleteYHI
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ReplyDeleteAnd that, dearest GL, is why there NEEDS to be this people who call her out. People like Cathy have enormous power and wield it ruthlessly. I've talked to some of her victims, and they were absolutely devastated. I'm way past 'snark' on the BS that she puts out there. I'm appalled, sickened, and furious. She's no different than the TV evangelists who rant away and collect money, then are found to have committed the same sins they rant against, because they are 'above all the rules.'
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteUhhh, how about some more cheery news? It's a beautiful fall day here in New England, and I just got back from a lesson with my trainer. Second ever saddleseat lesson, and my trainer gave a "whoop!" of appreciation when I had my horse at a road trot. Definitely made my week. Anyone else have some good recent horse stories?
ReplyDelete~Fen, having too good of a day to focus on Fubbs.
Well, I had a post typed out and slow internet ate it. Anyway, prayers sent for your Niece's friend, GL. Poor soul.
ReplyDeleteGrow a thicker skin. Grow a thicker skin. No skin should ever be so thick as to take bullying. That is a cold, callus and cruel thing to say when it comes to telling people how they should deal with bullying.
Why do I have the feeling that she was in the mean girls club in school, targeting everyone who didn't fit her and her groups idea of what should be acceptable? Lord above knows that I was on the wrong side of bullies growing up. I was beaten up, shoved into things, put in head locks, told that the trash can was my home. Why? Because I was fat.
I see the same mentality with cathy. Bullies, like leopards, can't seem to change those spots.
~DK
She has not filed a tax return in at least 17 years. She works on a 1099 and does not file.
ReplyDeleteSee, now if I was an evil woman, I'd point out that this is a crime and link to the statutes at the IRS and the reporting instructions. I'd also point out that the IRS pays a percentage of the money they recover to the reporter. Hey, it's no different from outing the person who dropped off that horse at the auction house, right? Oh. Wait. Taking a horse to auction isn't illegal. Failing to pay income taxes is.
But, what a free fucking loader. How *DARE* she bitch about people freeloading off of government services. Has she driven on a federal highway in the last 17 years? Has she called the police? Has she ridden on federal land? Has she done anything supported by taxes? I bet money she has.
*AARUGH* this is just pissing me off to no end. Look, the second year we were in business we improved our income a lot over the first year. This resulted in me having to find almost $30,000 in cash to pay the IRS on April 15th. But I did it. I took out loans and scrimped and we ate pasta for months because that's the responsible thing to do.
*mumble*mutter*cursing*muttering*anger*
GoLightly said: I'm so sorry, guys, I just cannot stand what the horse world has become, and it's driven by the fugs mentality.
ReplyDeleteGL, I'm sorry that your neighbor is a twit and is mistreating her horse and getting you upset. But really, the majority of horse people are not like Fugly and have never heard of Fugly. I think you're being over-dramatic when you make blanket statements like the above. Most horse owners are doing the best that they can and their horses are fed and cared for. The world is a wonderful place. Maybe you need to take a break from the internet and your neighbor and go out into this world search for some positive things.
who wants happy news?? the saddlebred who we used to lovingly refer to as our "crack horse" due to his cribbing...is now called a LUSH and up a whopping 10 pounds!! He is no longer taking a bite of food and running away with it. He is the first to his feed trough and NO CRIBBING....nothing...and he was quietly grazing today....oh sweet mother of pearl..I don't care if I have to buy him 2 buds a day for the rest of his life...he is improving.....amen to you all for suggesting it!!! also, Convoy has settled in nicely. He was shown to some ranch visitors who were dumbfounded that he is a stallion. He was standing just feet away from the mares under saddle in the arena and didn't so much as look their way. He also allowed a new ranch mom to look under him. When she asked if it was ok to touch your horse's "weenie" (ha ha ha ha) and "junk" (even more ha ha ha) we let her reach under him and talked about sheath cleaning and washing their balls. He's a good boy and neither him nor Gillian his owner deserved the bashing they got on the fuglyblog.
ReplyDeletealso...I think my album is now public ....we posted this today for two horses we are selling (I know shoot me now for not keeping them til the day I die...LOL). If anyone feels like ripping their conformation apart, I have thick skin ;) Just thought you might want to see some nice fat happy horses being ridden correctly and enjoying their job. :)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=app_2915120374#!/album.php?aid=89819&id=1498633979
Ok...so how is this for petty.....I really really want my daughter to be able to ride against the VLC on Convoy.....because we WILL be taking photos and video and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for him to kick ass and take names and then remind Cathy that she called him a POS!! OK....pretty petty but we call can have little fantasies right....when would we have time to travel that far and heck Convoy is only green broke...she hasn't even gotten to saddling him yet....but there is always this week!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteBack to an unhappy post for a minute
ReplyDeleteMy wonderful, kind, sort of dim, AUTISTIC, son was driven to trying to commit suicide when he was in 8th grade because people tormented him. Pushed his head in a toilet and flushed telling him he was a piece of sh*t, was dragged by his back pack to a balcony and boosted up to the edge of the rails and told he was going to be shoved over, had a PRINCIPAL tell him that it was his own fault because he is gay and is "weird" was dragged by his shirt out of a class WITH THE TEACHER WATCHING because one of his classmates didn't want the "autistic fag" in his class. "Phone call in the middle of the night asking for Kaemon to give a blow job. Hate mail and death threats. It goes on and on the list of horrors from that terrible year.
It stopped when I happened to witness one incident and called the cops for assault and battery. (I also called the phone people at reported harassing calls and the postal service about the hate mail.) Everyone got VERY upset, principal got fired. Kids (and parents) blamed Kaemon for getting a "popular" principal fired. (The principal got himself fired) Upshot Kaemon tried to kill himself. He saw a shrink for years. Is he "All better" now? Yes it the answer most folks want to hear, but it's not true. Kaemon has few friends and fewer places he feels comfy in socializing.
I bumped into one of the parents of the bullies yesterday while I was grocery shopping. She told me how "nice to see" Kaemon had gotten over that "little incident" in 8th grade. No, I'm sorry, but no. Kaemon hasn't gotten "over" that "little incident" in 8th grade. He deals with it on a daily basis.
I try to he open minded about Cathy. I usually figure most folk are doing the best they can.
I now believe Cathy is a malignate narcissist with or perhaps a Unprincipled narcissist.
I do not say this lightly.
Just because her claims are bugging my statical sense, people who abuse are statically more likely to have been abused. BUT this DOES NOT MEAN all folk who have been abused grow up to be abusers.
Think of it this way I am more likely to be a smoker if I had parents who smoked. This does not mean that I WILL grow up to be a smoker. If that statistic held true in all cases, we would have more not fewer smokers (as a percentage of the population) in the USA now then we did in the 50 and 60's.
I do wonder if Cathy had any comorbidity sign as a child like fire starting, torturing people/animals, bed wetting. It might be one reason that she is so hepped on stopping abuse now. She was an abuser. Nothing like a converted sinner.
On a positive note, I may be moving to South Carolina. If I do, I'm going to learn to drive and get a team of percherons and do combined driving. I've wanted a team of percherons since I was old enough to look at Marguerite Henry's "Album of Horses" My dear dad must have read the section on Percherons to me every day for 4 years. My other favorite book as a kid was Hollings Clancy Hollings "Seabird". I guess being obsessed with Percherons is better than wanting to grow up to be a Whaling or Clipper Ship captain.
ReplyDeleteLEG when I was a kid the head groom (who was Irish) use to give the working (field)hunters, the lesson horses and the show horses a Guinness Stout a day.
ReplyDeleteHoly cow Kaede! What a terrible ordeal for your son and you to endure. Stuff like that makes most travails in life seem insignificant.
ReplyDelete-k
people do not understand the power of their words.....we lived in the community where the little girl hung herself after a friends mother pretended to be a boy on myspace. THAT woman is being held accountable for her actions and I firmly believe that Cathy needs to be as well. Her verbal attacks are unfounded and wrong. Congrats on the possible move. I hope it comes to pass for you!!
ReplyDeleteKaedeL I commend you on being such a strong mother and I feel for what you, your son and family must have gone through. Shame on the parents of those other children.
Kaede, friend of mine wrote this about bullies http://kateharding.info/2010/10/06/on-good-kids-and-total-fucking-assholes/
ReplyDeleteIt should be shouted from the rooftops. If you are a bully, you are not a good person.
I do think there are 2 things going on. One, bullying is the sexy thing to report about so all the journalists are doing it. It's not that anything has really changed, asshole kids are still assholes. I also think kids now have less of an escape than they used to. I had the barn and could go ride where I was treated like a human and given support and acceptance. I had a relatively safe space at home. But social media changed that a lot. So there's fewer safe spaces for bullied kids to discover themselves. And if you think it's never going to get better why *wouldn't* you kill yourself?
(my captcha: lapturd how... apppropriate)
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ReplyDelete"Thick skin" my ass. When I saw a kid and heard a kid tell my son "to move his f**king Autistic, stupid, gay butt and shove him down the steps in front of his middle school with the principal and the itinerant Autism teacher watching (They didn't know I had just walked up behind them) and do nothing but tell Kaemon "what can you expect they are only playing with you" it dawned on me that kind of "play" will get you arrested if you do it to an adult on a street.
ReplyDeleteWhen we went to court was when all the other stuff came out from teachers who had been afraid of the principal. Just after that one of the teachers was found to have a cache of child porno hidden in their ceiling. The principal knew about it but "didn't want to loose a valuable teacher" then it turned out the principal had been selling the schools IT equipment to support his coke habit.
I'm still angry.
Laura Atkins I loved what your friend wrote. Do you all know about the http://thenewsoftoday.com/october-20th-spirit-day-wear-purple-to-honor-tyler-clementi-asher-brown/3365/"> wear purple on October 20th movement? I'm going to go head to foot in purple. I've got a nice embroiders salwar one of my students brought me from India as a gift.
ReplyDeleteGolightly please don't delete your comments. They are valuable. Please stay around and comment, I enjoy reading what you have to say.
messed up the blogger link. Sorry
ReplyDeletehere it is with out the embedding
http://thenewsoftoday.com/october-20th-spirit-day-wear-purple-to-honor-tyler-clementi-asher-brown/3365/
Oh Kaede. Good for you for fighting back. I can tell you all from personal experience the only way to stop a bully is to fight back. Ignoring bullies just gives them permission to keep tormenting people. I've often wondered who I would have become if my personal growth hadn't been stunted by the bullies who tortured me as a child. It took a lot of years and a whole lot of counseling to cope with it, and I still get anxious in certain situations. That's why I have no tolerance for a bully, and hell no I'm not going to sit around and watch it happen to someone else.
ReplyDeleteBeing bullied stays with you for a very long time, even what some would consider minor bullying can have a huge impact. For me, it's left me worried that people don't like me or are just toying with me when they seem to.
ReplyDeleteYou guys weren't the only one bullied. It was mainly for my art and the fact I wasn't a chatter box. In turn it made me really snippy, and I don't think people are sincere (and I know I'm not anymore. I just don't trust people.)I'd probably be a lot happier if it wasn't for the near daily crap I put up with, even if it was little. Needless to say, for 2 years I cried myself to sleep at night because I was so miserable there.
ReplyDeletehave you all seen You Again......it takes a hard look at how bullying affects grown ups....its funny & heart warming but really reminded me of how cruel bullies can be & the effect it can have on people's lives
ReplyDeleteLEG, go gettem girl! That's not petty at all. It's more like 'put your money where your mouth is.' Can't wait to see pics of him, sounds like a fabulous horse!
ReplyDeleteCS, the one good thing we do carry away from that is that we know how to recognize a bully. And dang, I am a bad person, but I just enjoy the heck out of giving it back to one. And protecting the innocents who should never ever have to know what we know.
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can break my heart.
Dammit this pisses me off
ReplyDeletefhotd says:
October 11, 2010 at 7:31 pm
I think someone talked to them already and they are the ones who were able to say that this mare had western pleasure training and had been shown at halter. They are not the people who dumped her.
Why is it that when the horse is a horse of high breeding and someone on her blog hunts it down suddenly they are saints and "not the ones who dumped her"
I am saying it: what a BITCH
I think she's seriously schizophrenic. I am not meaning to be flippant. I seriously see multiple personalities in this crazy woman.
"The people at Sawda Arabians" aren't responsible because a horse they bred ended up in a kill pen. What happened to "you are responsible for a horse for its whole life?" Why aren't we yelling "die breeders die"?
and then there's this nugget of wisdom in reference to Hanoverians in a european auction and the high dollars they are going for
fhotd says:
October 11, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Yep. They’re breeding Ferraris. The Ferraris will find homes. Perfectly OK to breed Ferraris – even in this economy!
~Devil's Adv
Having two young daughters that are just starting to enter into the public school system, bullying and the "mean girl" syndrome is a real concern of mine. I especially don't ever, ever, ever want my girls to be on the side of the bitchy mean one. And I have smart, beautiful girls - they could so easily go the way of the "mean girl." So when things have come up I have so far, taken a deep breath and I've bitten off the response of "well that girl is just a little bitch and her parents are getting a call from me!" and instead I keep telling my daughters that..."those kids who are mean? They must be really sad. The best thing you can do is remember how sad they must be to say mean things and you just keep on being the nice girl you are, no matter what."
ReplyDeleteI know that isn't an answer every time and sometimes you do gotta fight back, but for now, it's the best advice I could think to give them to survive the day-to-day silliness with their spirits intact!
My father was recently driving in Seattle. Not being used to "city traffic" he ended up turning into a left hand turn lane and accidentally cutting off another driver who was driving to speed by him. Collision narrowly avoided. They came to a stoplight and the guy in the other car jumped out his car and came charging over to my dad, screaming obscenities, shaking fists and asking "Can't you fucking drive????" Possibly packing a gun or who knows what.
My dad, rolled down his window and said..."Well, you see, I'm just a really really bad driver."
(FYI, my dad drove a semi and trailer truck for about 20 years).
Apparently this response completely flabbergasted the guy who just stood there, mouth gaping, all the fight just socked right out of him, not knowing what to say. And the light turned green and my Dad drove off.
That's a great story about your dad PF! Your kids are being vaccinated against bullying by your attitude. Cool!
ReplyDeleteAnd LEG, yay for the saddlebred lush! Horsey tranquilizer, beer is...haha!
So the VLC's show days are over. What a surprise. What is this about? "hell, he’s leading the nation in breeding stock pinto halter stallions (true, amusingly enough)…but it’s not enough." She has to have some serious mental health issues!
ReplyDeleteI'd be curious to see what someone who can really handle a horse would be able to do with VLC. Someone who might let him out of his stall if he's known to kick the shit out of the walls. Or maybe someone who would spend some time really developing him into a great all around horse rather than try to make him something he's not (breeding stock pinto: whatever)Or maybe an owner who actually handles her own horse. There's something to be said for the bond between a horse and its owner, when the owner is an active part of the horse. As for her blog and "no non crank and yank trainers in So Cali" I read "no one who is going to let me keep my horse there for free, let me mooch off them, and maybe even sleep with her husband while I tout how great a horse I never see is"
ReplyDeleteYou would think that somewhere in Southern California there would be a cruelty free trainer.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:42 p.m. Thank you for misreading what Golightly said and making her feel as if she had to take everything she did say down. Golightly is a valued and respected person here and if she has something she wants to say, I think she should feel free to say it without being talked down to.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:42...I guess you haven't been paying attention to #1 the fact this is a review of the fugster and her cronies and #2 because of the mentality to which GL was referring, people like fugs can and DO exist.
ReplyDeleteThe sheriff here calls them "do gooding busy bodies". One of the deputies is run around all the time because of people who have the EXACT mentality that fugs has. The spring we first moved here, he got called out to our ranch by a lady from the next town over who "liked to drive by and make sure we were taking care of our horses". She called him to tell him our goat "had his head stuck in the gate." The goat in question is a 300 pound billy with massive horns and he is perfectly capable of sticking his head through the gate. And guess what...back out too!! Then this peach started leaving us notes saying our horses were with out water. Hello.....see those giant gray boxes with red floating balls on them. Those are automatic waterers. "Oh I didn't know. I'm from the city and I just know that I didn't see you water them" On and on and on...
Go read the comments on Fugs blog, people are trolling CL and other sites TRYING to find horse owners to rip apart. Read through the CL lists yourself, people post nasty comments to someone selling a horse like "why don't you try feeding it"
And EvERYONE has a right to post here...its why CS set it up so you don't have to register. GL, speak your mind baby!!!
I would like to say, I also echo that I love and appreciate GL's comments (even when we don't agree!). She is a smart cookie.
ReplyDeleteAnd now off to pile small heathens into vehicle and deliver them anywhere other than in front of me (yes, my children are driving me BONKERS this morning...).
GL, is a wise woman ,with an awful lot to offer the horse industry.She is also a tender heart who is truly devastated by the cruelty that the horse wolr ,and the world at large continues to dish out. If we have lost her insights from this blog, we are very unlucky here.It might be wise to remeber that like PF said , even when we don't disagree others opinions are valid and worth a look or thought. To those who have been so damaged and harmed by Fugly, I am truly sorry ,but I will leave you with my moms favorite line."the best revenge is living well"
ReplyDeleteAnd Kaede, hugs to you and your wonderful boy! so sorry that he has had so many struggles at the hands of unthinking cruel individuals
I don't know GL personally, but I gotta say I agree with her about the nastiness, it's exhausting. But this is the Net and once something is printed, it's there for everyone to see, forever -Doesn't matter if it's true or not, doesn't matter if it's one small thing, taken out of context then blown out of proportion. It's there for everyone to read. One of my favorite Fugly habits is when she tells people to go Google someone to prove her point, and when you take the trouble to Google that person,or organization, you find pages of nastiness posted by Fugly or members of her group. So, in the end, the sheer volume of misinformation becomes a way of supporting her opinion.An example of this would be the Mz Wiggle's situation. That woman was totally innocent of any wrong doing. But her name and image is still on the Net complete with Cathy Atkinson's comments. Fortunately, this time, this board and others like it, spoke up and the truth was posted as well. So while there was damage done to her reputation, it was mitigated and the truth is there to be read. I may be way 'off base', but in my opinion, too many good people have been too quiet for too long. And until the laws change, and some of these Nuts get handcuffed for harassment,there are only two choices..either turn a 'blind eye' to the damage and pain caused by Cathy Atkinson, or continue to speak out...But, as I said, I could be wrong :)
ReplyDeletethe problem is that fugs knows just how to stay out of the reach of the law....she personally does not do the harassing...but she encourages it....i feel she should be held responsible for the mass humiliation, threats, and issues she personally encourages (once again the yelling fire in a theater concept here)...my solution, when she starts her nonsense, I do take the information and I contact the person...with a HEADS UP....tell them what is about to happen and offer a shoulder....i think battling a bully is best by standing with the person being bullied...i don't condone behavior such as the horses left in a trailer but I won't go after the man..the law did...let them handle this....but the dude with the two horses for sale...come on....its how we came to have our very much adored Convoy now and we met a lovely lady....and then there's Leland and so many others....she will mess up...and when she does, i will stand back and let karma kick her nasty butt
ReplyDeleteWhee! From BehindTheBitBlog.com: Mustang gets reserve champion stallion at the Dressage at Devon show. He's training 3rd level.
ReplyDeleteBehind the Bit article and pictures
BLM article
Dressage News Article
I just tried to read GoLightly's blog and she has set it on private. I didn't get an invitation, did anyone?
ReplyDeleteI hope she hasn't been the target of harassment.
I miss you GL come back please!
my word conf was "Wories", that I do. I wories.
ReplyDeleteKaede drop me a line at fernvalley01@hotmail.com
ReplyDeleteCRAP, blogger ate a long coherent post.
ReplyDeletefcuk it.
if you want to read me, e-mail barb@macgraphics.ca
I think, until the pseudo-drama is over, it's better anyway. Wouldn't want to annoy people with actual real-life animal neglect stories.
how upsetting!
How falsely dramatic!
Although how walking away from the keyboard is going to help that horse.. I got a LOT done for that horse, with these fingers. I got him fed.
It was my suggestion to BHM to allow anonymous comments.
Just sayin'.
Kaede, my heart goes out to you and your son. Sorry to go OT on bullying again but how do you handle the bully "friends". My 11 year old son is gifted and yet so immature he actually thinks people are true. He mentioned some things tonight that a "friend" (and I have been trying to get this kid out of his life) has been telling and doing and it is the subtle kind of bullying that slowly eats away at his self esteem. I prop him up as much as I can and tell him that this kid is not a friend, because a friend would not "take a survey to see how popular you are and on a 1 to 10 scale tell you that you are a 2". You see, there was a problem last year and I involved the absolutely wonderful school counselor when this kid would corner my son and call him a faggot and say he was worthless and she scared the crap out of this kid so he stopped. I am so blessed to have a supportive school.
ReplyDeleteThis year it, it is so much more subtle that I have to deal with myself. We are back to the same spot last year but this is so much more insidious because it is on such a subtle level. I will deal and I will protect and I have a feeling I will be facing the parents of this kid. At least I am lucky in that there are two boys who help stick up for my son (one of them told me last year about how bad it was) so he does not feel as helpless. Funny thing is, when they were accused wrongly, my son backed them and by definition I backed my son, and when the truth was out, they were cleared. Funny thing too is the kid after my son was the instigator with them. I truly believe in Karma because of the good turn my son did, he is receiving from them (when they can).
This is why I can't stand Cathy Atkinson and sound incoherent alot of times. She makes me sick with her bullying and lack of empathy. I know the laws have not caught up yet but Karma is keeping tabs on her and oh, how the mighty do fall.
GL, you have done a lot for the poor HorseInGarage. It's just terrible that the authorities are doing nothing for the poor creature. Can we help by writing them? Nagging? Can we pull a fugly on them? Dang, it sure seems like something could be done, and yet you've done it all. Things are truly crazy when good horsemen are attacked and yet a horrible person gets a free pass to abuse like that...
ReplyDeleteWish, do you have access to the bully one on one? I had one like that after one of my sons in grade school, it was ugly. He finally did come over to the house and I sat him down and asked him..."what's your problem?!" The boy was just trying to be cool, turns out he had some pretty bad stuff going on at home. I just talked to him like an adult, and let him figure his way through it, defined friendship in our world, and signed a behavior contract with him if he was going to spend time at our house. (I did make sure that there was lots of FOOD at our house and old appliances to dismantle, amazing the effect on boys...) I also let the kid put in some of the things he wanted from us. He's now one of my son's long term friends. Your son sounds a lot like mine, able to pick up on a wounded soul and have empathy, to the point of it being a fault!
ReplyDeleteGL, I missed all your posts and drama, but I hope you aren't gone from here...
ReplyDeleteKaede...I can't even express how sad it made me to read about your son. I was your average middle of the road kid in school, neither bullied or was a bully but nothing could make me go back and relive those school days again. Kids are cruel and unless we teach them young...you end up with a messed up society like we have now.
As for Cathy finally gelding BYC. Its about time. She proved exactly nothing with her little experiment. He didn't get one AQHA point nor did he even show in anything of note. His number one standing as a halter stallion is a joke...he's probably the ONLY one competing in that division. Why was she showing her QH stallion in paint and arab shows anyhow? At least she's gelding him and not creating more cripples. He will probably make a very nice gelding although he doesn't sound like he's sound enough to do much more than walk along the trails and she's afraid to trail ride. I still have serious doubts she ponies polo ponies or does anything other than sleep with players....I also have my suspicions she'll breed him to one of her rescue mares before she gelds him. Otherwise, why isn't he gelded now? Its the perfect time of year to do so....She should have his balls bronzed...
Oops, the above post was me!
ReplyDeletelolasl
I know the boy well and I know his situation. I have actually had a chance to work with him (I am his den leader) to try to promote leadership qualities in order to overcome this. The overt stuff has seemed to stop but now this new bully "friend" persona seems to have appeared. Last night was a shock when my son mentioned it (thus the rant) and now I am in planning and action mode because tonight we have a den meeting and I am working on how to include empathy into the activities (thanks for listening Kestrel!).
ReplyDeleteThey were best friends until about 3rd grade and then things fell apart for the boy. I am not making excuses because I am a firm believer in personal accountability, even from young ones. They were best buds for 2 years, that is what hurts my son the most. And he knows how to really hurt my son and that is what pisses me off the most.
Small steps for this kid and I may be chatting with the mom about these recent comments - I have not decided yet but when we had problems last year, we were able to speak logically about this.
The rotten things about bullies is that it comes from from the parents, either the parent is a blatant bully or one that just thinks they are so great themselves that they bad mouth people behind everyone's back and the kids pick it up.
ReplyDeleteAnother rotten thing about bullies is that parents are always relieved when their kid is the popular one and not being the bullied kid, so they often turn a blind eye to their child's behavior.
I've dealt with this enough in my life to know this well.
I was very different from my peers, as was my husband, and both of us were teased enough to consider suicide as teenagers. I wasn't so much bullied as teased relentlessly but my husband was
beaten up constantly until the schools stopped busing kids into other neighborhoods. He was the white kid bussed into the black neighborhood, I know, not politically correct to talk about whites being bullied by blacks but that's what happened in his situation.
I don't remember who said it earlier about if the things that occurred in school occurred at work then the police would be involved, that is absolutely correct!
I have a hard time understanding why people say hostile school environments teach kids to deal with the real world. I've been working out in the "real world" for several years now and none of what happened to me at school has happened at any of my jobs, it didn't happen in college either, although I never lived in a dorm, which I imagine is where a lot of the conflict goes.
Although the internet has turned into school all over again with fugly type blogs.
Grrrrrr Argh have to vent before I implode!!
ReplyDeleteShowed a horse tonight that we have for sale (yes shoot me now right) The people got out of their truck AFTER I sent pics of the horse in conformation stances and under saddle and said "ewww I don't like her". Had I heard it, I would said "go home" but instead we tried the show the horse...they bitched about the bit and that she is barefoot (ummm she is trimmed and its a good hoof). Then they whined that she was impressive bred. Dammit I sent you a copy of her papers and TOLD you that she was impressive bred but hypp n/n. As my daughter is riding her all over the arena, loping her, trotting her, side passing they say "she doesn't have much of a handle" she slides a 13 ft stop on a disengaged hindquarter seat cue...what the hell kind of handle do they want...when they started whining about she's not really a broke horse I said, "well i am not going to waste my time trying to convince you she's a nice horse. you don't like her. go home. Thank you" grrr some people!
LEG, sounds like someone was trying to get a good deal - crummy way to do it though!
ReplyDeleteI know....they were just trying to dis our horse to lowball her...they tried to tell me that a tom thumb is not a snaffle.....so i offered them to go into our tack room and choose the snaffle they wanted....they pointed to a grazing bit......wtf??? and you people think you are qualified to tell me a horse we used at camp for 6 weeks and that rode saturday morning after being in the field for a month on our drill team doesn't have a "handle" on her....OMG
ReplyDeleteActually, a tom thumb bit is not really a snaffle. Its technically a curb. Any bit with shanks works off leverage and therefore doesn't qualify as a snaffle. For western horses, a floating ring is the one you see most use. Personally, I won't ride any horse in a broken mouth piece that has a shank on it because they are even more severe than a straight up curb or grazing bit. Its a common misconception that a tom thumb is a gentle bit, when it can actually put a fairly hard mouth on a horse in the wrong hands.
ReplyDeleteStill, it was obvious your `buyers' were trying to get a deal. The thing with me, the rare time I sell a horse is, I'm test driving the buyers as much as they are sizing up the horse. I have to feel good about the home the horse is going to. It doesn't sound like those are the types of people I would think worthy of my horse. I'd rather they go for a pet that is loved than a serious show home where only the trainer or staff deal with them any day of the week. Horses really don't care if they win ribbons, I've found out ;)
lolasl
I would like to tell Cathy Atkinson that the owner of the black gelding is the one who purchased him. End of story.
ReplyDeleteLEG, those are the kind of people that are proud to be stupid...yikes. They probably couldn't afford the horse anyway. WHat is up with that?!
ReplyDeleteI agree with the post above that Fugs' comment about not finding a non crank and yank trainer in California probably really means "can't find a person who's enough of a sucker to board him for much less than market standard (or better, for free)." Kind of like doesn't have a checking account because doesn't like bank fees. I suspect that means prohibited from getting a checking account for a certain number of years because of bad check history.
ReplyDeleteCould someone please clarify what a "tom thumb" bit looks like - this is what i think of when I hear tom thumb: http://www.horselands.co.nz/?page=iSellProduct&installation=1&parentcategory=118&product=1712&tab=43 basically it is a snaffle with sides that stop the horse (and espcially ponies in my experience) sliding the bit through their mouth.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TroublewithTomThumb.htm
ReplyDeleteI think that tom thumbs are ok to use if you know how to ride without jerking the horse around. As far as it being a harsh bit, I've seen much worse (how about a spade... even if you know what you are doing you can seriously hurt the horse... then put that spade in backwards and keep pulling... that's why my mare has to be ridden in a hackamore, it tore up her mouth)
ReplyDeleteAs far as it being a snaffle it is called a Tom Thumb Snaffle (at least here in Missouri)... snaffle is the generic term for a "broken" bit... yes, there are many types of snaffles, find the bit that works for your horse and your needs...
Something that frustrates me is when I (or really anyone) is riding my horse and someone sees the bit (either before or after I rode, or asks what it is) and says they don't like the horse or my riding because of my bit choice. Ask me why I use that bit and we can have a discussion, but don't dog me or my horse because of the bit.
How about a twisted snaffle??? Thos aren't much fun for the horse huh?? Also I attended a bitting clinic several years ago in which the clinician discussed the concepts of bits and harshness. His take was this "no matter what you put in the horses mouth or use to control the head,...in the wrong hands, it is harsh" he then went on to show a slide presentation of a horse who had his jaw broken by the use of a bosal and mecate. Summer 2009 we had a rider dismissed from a ring for using a non-mechanical hack and the judge made the child cry stating that if she couldn't handle her horse in a curb it wasn't broke and the mechanics of the hack are illegal. This same child went a week later to a different show and placed 1st in 4 different classes. My take is very much like the clincian....gentle hands must be taught. Concerning these dipsquats comments about a "handle" on the horse...I wish they would clarify what that means to them. I think people hear certain phrases and just pick them up and use them like a magic buzz word. I'm going to put a few of them down in the next posting just to get a feel for what you all think. As far as our little mare is concerned, I think we are going to pull her off the market and just keep her. It's easier than dealing with the idiots. If anyone on here is in the market for a nice qh, go ahead and let me know but I'm sick of people trying to lowball a quality horse when she is not out of line pricewise and has done nothing to warrant ugly comments
ReplyDeleteThe Impressive Bred Conversation
ReplyDelete"Oh my GOD, she didn't tell me we were coming to look at an impressive bred horse. I would just as soon stay away from anything with impressive anywhere in the line"
Me: really, why is that
"well you know what they say about them horses"
Me: no, not really. tell me
"well they are impressive bred and you know what that means. I mean everyone knows what it means. after all, its impressive bred"
Me: ok but you all saw her papers. she is hypp n/n and impressive is about 10 generations back. what is it about the lineage you don't like, especially where this horse is concerned
"well they say impresive bred horses just should not be messed with because of impressive himself. you know what i mean"
Me: um, i'd like to hear you clarify what you are concerned about
"well just the whole fact she is impressive bred"
Me: are you concerned about hyperkalemic periodic paralysis with this horse?
"oh no, i mean we give shots for that and keep the possums and coons out of the hay"
Me: I don't really think my horse is right for you
LEG - I think that conversation is the epitome of "a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing"
ReplyDeleteSnaffles snaffles and more snaffles:
ReplyDelete"that is NOT a snaffle"
me: ok well its a very short shanked copper mouth tom thumb and...
"you don't know that a tom thumb is not a snaffle"
me: ma'am go in that tack room and pick out what snaffle you want to see the horse ridden in
"that's not necesary"
Me: so you don't want us to change the bit?
"Well i don't like that bit. it's the wrong bit for your horse" (mind you, the horse had been walked from the round pen to the arena under saddle about 50 yds. that's all they saw"
Me: ok would you like an o-ring, d-ring, egg butt, full cheek. do you want stainless steel or copper? what do you ride your horse in
"the bits we use have the metal down piece like that tom thumb but go straight across so there's no pinch or pull to it"
Me: but it has shanks
"about 5 inches sometimes it has a little bump to it"
Me: and this is your snaffle??
"yes. and that horse is just not going to ride in a tom thumb. plus dont you need a nose band on it"
Me: girls put a full cheek copper mouth snaffle in her and take her through a couple of exercises
"that's not a snaffle either. I dont know what that is but it's not a snaffle"
Me: girls go ride the horse
LEG, now that is funny!! I find it all the time as a trainer...some one who has frustrated, irritated, hurt and harassed their horse until it is fighting mad is the one telling me how to do my job.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of different bits out there for a reason. Every horse's mouth is different. Some horses do well in a fairly severe bit because their owner has trained hands, some owners can't be trusted with any bit and their horses suffer for it. I don't take any horse in for training that doesn't come with a trainable human.
I have to admit I'm a bit junky and have a full arsenal of them. The funny thing is, I generally ride in a floating ring with copper mouth piece. I always moved `up' a bit for the showring but that was only to allow a cue to be subtle. ANY bit can be harsh in the wrong hands. I won't allow anybody to ride one of my horses in anything other than the most gentle bit as all my horses are very soft mouthed. Even my OTTB had a mouth like butter on him and he used to be one of the tougher ones to gallop when he was racing. You can always re-educate their mouths with a little patience.
ReplyDeleteLEG, those people did not deserve your horse....simple as that. Some of the nicer horses I have ridden are Impressive breds. If they are HYPP n/n there is no issue at all and any horseperson would know that.
yes, Tom Thumbs are not the harshest bits out there, but I think some people get deceived by the fact that they are called snaffles. I've seen a double twiseted wire that was a snaffle that I would never dream of puttin on a horse. I've never even put so much as a slow twist in a horse's mouth. That's just me though...
lolasl
I usually figure that if I need a super harsh bit to stop them, why would I want to get on them?! Groundwork...
ReplyDeleteDee-
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of a tom thumb I see this: http://www.equisearch.com/horses_riding_training/tack_apparel/bit_gallery/tomthumb/
Like any bit it is as severe as the user's hands make it. I have one that is used in the horses that don't like a lot of stuff in their mouth, mine are adjusted so the curb strap (never a chain) hits before any jaw cracking happens. And my horses are in snaffles or bosels 80% of the time.
Ah ha, thanks for the education. Personally I've normally used really plain and boring "english snaffles" although I have sometimes had to haul out some of the heavy artillery when re starting OTTB's. My way of thinkig was to find a bit that the horse was comfortable in, and that it would respond to with light aids. Yes, I could have used a plain egg butt snaffle, but I would have ended up in a pulling contest, as we got the aids refined the bit got milder - all og my re-starts ended up being able to be ridden in a loose ring or eggbut snaffle, depending on the horses preference.
ReplyDeletethis is OT but I'm curious as to what you guys think about the Henneke scale.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.shady-acres.com/susan/conditionscore.shtml
I personally don't know where on this scale a horse should fall. It seems to me that 5 is too thin and 6 is too fat... also, as the website states, it does not take into consideration muscle-tone, breeding, confirmation, age, etc., so using this to determine if the horse is in "good health" seems a little silly to me because is "healthy" 28 yr old retired OTTB is (typically) going to be thinner than a 5 yr old world champion paint...
I find this site more helpful, purple chicken:)
ReplyDeleteBCS SCORING, PDF alert
Take a look at an endurance horse, or a race horse, then look at any pleasure horse. A very fit horse can look thin, when they are not.
I think 5 is justaboutright, on the henneke score.
jmo.
One thing I don't like about impressive bred, is the big butt. To me, that's just not very pretty in my eyes and that, along with hypp, would be my argument about my dislike for them. However, as far back as it is in your mare, LEG, it's really nothing to worry about. (And the n/n means she's not a carrier, right? I haven't done a genetic chart is so many years.) How much are you selling her for?
ReplyDeleteAs for bits, I prefer a low port comfort snaffle. My best friend rides her arab mare in a cathedral, but the mare loves it and my friend has very good hands. She was surprised when she found out how well the little mare actually liked the bit. To be honest, though, I am lost at bits. That is something I really need to get off my kiester and start learning about.
GL Good to see you back, gf! I hope you didn't take it out of place when I barked at the anon up earlier, it just roasted my taters that she made you feel as if you had to take down everything you said.
~DK Trying this again because blogger ate it the first time.
One grand old (26!) mare I ride goes in a (specially made for her) Dr. Bristol twisted wire half cheek snaffle. That's her favorite bit. The only thing I can think of is she likes very thin bits with a flat place for her tongue. She fusses when I've tried pricy snaffles, some with with roller centers, some narrow bridoons, a little of every thing. She just likes her Dr. Bristol twisted wire half cheek snaffle. Go figure.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else getting the "Error establishing a database connection" message when trying to get on fugs blog?
ReplyDeleteDidn't this just happen recently, too?
I saw that error last night around 9 CT
ReplyDeleteDumbass cant pay her blog bill again. I wonder how she pays her board bills?
ReplyDeleteWe have $1000 or an offer on our mare. Yes, DK...She is hypp n/n..meaning does not have the gene nor is a carrier so breeding her someone desired to not be a threat....
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of the bit confusion is that tom thumbs as well as lots of other shanked bits with the word snaffle on the packaging or on catalog pages. It is after all a broken bit but has the shanks.
Our two favorite bits for our horses, which seem to work very well....on looks terribly harsh if you just walk up to the horse and see the shanks...its long shanked but has a very , very thick broken bit covered by a inch copper cricket. It works on poll pressure and the cricket allows the horse to gently roll it along the pallet & keeps the mouth moist......the other bit that is quickly becoming a favorite is a french link with copper rings...the horses LOVE this bit....my youngest is using it on her horse that is really high strung, nothing else was working and this bit seems to be the best. ...he's so silly with it too because he used to fight taking his bit, now he opens up so he can wiggle those rings around......
We do have 1 twisted ring bit on our place...its for our 20 yr old pony and he came with it....we tried a different bit because I am not a fan of anything twisted and my young rider ended up in a tree two properties away....hershey rides like a dream in that bit....if you put anything else in his mouth, he will buck and bolt......
Again, a bit is always as harsh as the hands that are attached to it, but anything with a shank and broken mouth piece has potential for great injury. They work like a nutcracker on the mouth and often cause gaping hard mouthed horses. For my own use, shanks only belong in the show ring and never with a broken mouthpiece...
ReplyDeletelolasl
As for my bit input, I don't like any bit that has only one break (any regular snaffle, generally). I ride all the young horses in a "loose ring hollow mouth copper french link snaffle", if that's too much of a mouthful I just call it the "baby bit". The young'uns love the copper, the double break is soft and forgiving, and the loose rings allow them to play with the bit, and learn to carry it on their own. After that bit, I move up to a solid mouthpiece or to a different multi-break mouthpiece. My show bit is a solid mouth low-port kimberwicke, and it works just fine on any of the babies I started in the "baby bit".
ReplyDeleteI made the mistake of putting one horse in a single joint d-ring bit, and she almost hit me in the nose with her head first time I touched the reins! I think she was just spoiled by the softness of the double-break baby bit. :)
I know not everyone will agree with me, but it's what has worked for me so far.
I took the silly bay mare (5 year old Morgan) out for a ride today. Hadn't been ridden in over a month, and today was cold and rainy, AND I rode her out in the field for the first time. She had only the baby bit in her mouth, and she was a DREAM to ride!
I agree with Lolasl. ANY bit or hackamore can be harsh in the wrong hands.
ReplyDeleteI have seen horses ridden in spade bits where the horse is completely happy and the rider has very soft hands (the bit being used for a VERY well trained horses with a VERY well trained rider)
I have seen horses ridden in French Links that hate it and the rider has very rough hands
You can hurt your horse in a Bosal if you have rough hands! BUT I have learned you can teach a horse to have a soft mouth if you have soft hands.
I currently have a mare who was never bitted so she came with a Mechanical Hackamore with HUGE shanks on it. She hated it,was consistently shaking her head and grinding her teeth. So we changed her to a side pull (with vet wrap around the nose to pad it) she was very hard on it at first but in a few rides realized that if she gave to the pressure immediately, the pressure disappeared.
The same is with snaffle bits. The lady I work for uses a knotted rope halter to start the baby's. Very soft and doesn't use their mouths. We take them on their first trail ride that way. Then we move to a copper snaffle. We keep the headstall loose to teach them to carry the bit and we dont use the bit at first. Just let them get used to carrying it, then we slowly transition to using the bit full time.
If you have soft hands a harsh bit can become soft. The same is if you have hard hands the softest bit can become harsh!
We were never allowed to ride with a jointed bit as kids, short shank, low port curb with a leather chin strap set loose only...Left, right, go and whoa, horses neckreined on cue, not on pull. To ride a snaffle properly you need to keep it level in the horse's mouth so it can't 'teepee'. Kids can't do that because they don't have the balance, and a green horse can't carry that type of bit easily because they don't have the balance. If you put a snaffle in the crook of your elbow and pull, it's quite an education!
ReplyDeleteSome of my horses have ranged in bits from snaffles to pelham in english. I usually ride english. For a western bit I have a old sielster bit with a low port. I love that bit just a gently nudge and my horse is right on the spot. She gets distracted sometimes. I do prefer to ride in a full cheek snaffle 90% of the time. I did have a horse that would not stop for anything. I took me a couple of years to get her willing to take a snaffle. I have seen some real strange looking bits that have long shanks, high ports, and even thin bosals (look more like a tie down) just crazy.
ReplyDeleteWhat ever happened to what ever works, works? To heck with the "ideal" bit. Yeah, this does assume (and we all know about assumptions.)that if you are selecting a bit, you know something about bits and how they work; and that you know something about your horses.
ReplyDeleteI grew up riding in nothing but full cheek snaffles. Back in the day they were what beginners rode in. But then again, we spent lots o' time on a lunge line getting our position stable before we got our hands on the reins. None of this was 1/2 hour, once a week. At first I did it three times a week for the first month then I moved to every day.
Right on Kaede! Now when I started riding I didn't have that, BUT when I started dresssage I did. I spent 2 months 2x a week bareback on the lounge. I didn't get reins until I could post bareback, with my heels down AND with my hands on my hips. Taught me a lot about having soft hands.
ReplyDeleteWhen I have given lessons all people start on the lounge with no stirrups and no reins. Its good for them and lets me see where their balance is.
I personally ride my mare in a side pull, but thats because she can't stand the bit :)
Honestly though you do need to ride in the bit that WORKS for you and your horse. Be it a tom thumb or a curb or a snaffle or anything else. As long as you know how to use the bit you are using.
We ought to be smart enough not to put a spade bit on either A. a green horse or B. on a horse with a green rider! :)