Tuesday, August 10, 2010

The Chain of Questions

From http://www.re-picture.info/blog/repictureblog.html


Who are we to say that our way is necessarily the right way when it comes to raising and dealing with animals? Animal lovers alike share many things with others like them, but no two go about raising or handling them the same way. Is barefoot better than the shoed? Nobody can truly say, for each animal varies in its responses to the practices we submit them to, nor does each practice remain just like the rest.

What about going as far as demonizing every person who doesn't do what you do? Does the barefooter begin spreading hatred about the one who shoes, giving out all the potential evils of shoeing? Does the other do the same for the barefooter? Do we go as far as posting numbers, pictures, and e-mails about these people so that only the bad stands out? It certainly raises a chain of questions and a story we are all too familiar with.

Animals deserve as much basic essential care as anyone else, but what happens when that said horse cannot be ridden, cannot eat properly anyone, cannot move freely, or cannot provide in the business they were a part of? We all know basic business principles, and how the goal is to maintain a steady flow of business and income in order to continue on with the said business. 

The name 'horse industry' itself denotes that horses themselves can be a business, and like all things the old mares and stallions must go to make way for the new generation who can still work and continue on. What becomes of those said animals who can no longer provide for their owners? Do we euthanize them, which it turn creates a host of bills from vet calls, proper disposal, backhoe rental, etc. Do we take them to the auction where the prospect they will be taken by a kill buyer and leave with the only money spent being in gas? From a business perspective, the latter looks and can be a lot cheaper than the former. 

Say these horses do end up being taken by  the kill buyer. Are the people who left these horses monsters who deserve to be treated like dirt, or are they acting upon a different perspective such as money, potential use of horse for food, etc.? Is slaughter the great demon many have made it out to be, or have we created it ourselves by banning it here for good? Then do we continue to chastise the people who left their horses to the kill pen when those who took away our chance to make it more regulated took that chance away? Do they truly treat the animals in the way that we are told by these groups, or are we being subjected to look through the wrong end of the telescope so what we see is small and the truth gets farther away? 


These are all questions we must ask ourselves, and actions we carry out personally. What you choose to do is your own right, but to smear others in disagreement is no way to go about the day. Privacy and information has become a sensitive issue today, and to respect it is to respect others a little more.


So what are your views?
Alternatives?

Etc?

95 comments:

  1. Very good questions, without easy answers. Civil discussions are more likely to be in the animal's best interest though.

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  2. I can't believe anyone is even asking this question........As a moral HUMAN being, the decision should be an easy one. You don't repay a mare with a death sentence who has built your business. You don't withhold vet care for an animal because they can't be bred any more.

    Yes any breeder that tosses away their animals deserves to be outed and demonized because they are evil self centered profiteers.

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  3. There are a lot of what if's in this scenario:

    What if you tried to find the horse a new home? Advertised everywhere, and no one responded? What if the your efforts to do so extended over a year, two years?
    What if it came down to being able to feed those who benefitted the business to those who no longer could?
    What if your morals are different than others, but you still see yourself as doing right, or the best you are able?

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  4. The people that Cathy is demonizing tried to sell them before taking them to auction. I think she is an idiot.

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  5. Horses are livestock.

    Ideally, every animal that had ever worked for its living would get a few years of cushy retirement followed by an easy and painless death.

    Realistically, some are going to go to auction. And some that go to auction are going to go to the kill buyer. In some cases, the kill buyer might even be the better option. How many horses at auction are purchased by people who haven't a clue, or are just looking for nags to put in a rent-a-nag string?

    If I were raising livestock, I would thank the critter that ended up on my plate.

    How about instead of crying over the possibility of a horse ending up on a truck to Mexico, we work to make slaughter in this country humane for all animals?

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  6. We've all seen the results of the 'Sloppy Sleuthing' and Harassment. In the 'Real World' beyond the 'Rescue Ranting' the Horses are dumped under a No Rescue Order, and they die - None of the Rescues see them, so none can be identified and No One has to worry about being 'Outed'. This isn't brain surgery, and it isn't my opinion, it's a fact...So, if I may, please, ask the question 'backwards'. Has anyone seen anything constructive come out of the nonsense? If the harassment was going to work, it would have, by now. Has anyone seen a single Horse saved or a single, known dumper, suddenly start his own re-homing project? Because I haven't.
    As for the solutions, all I have to offer is the same-ole, same-ole 'stuff'. I'd like to see a Registry Tax implimented. An extra ten or fifteen dollars a foal wouldn't 'sting' the Breeder too badly and those funds could be an enormous help to Local AC's and Humane societies, to buy Euth Trucks and build crematoriums- or construct facilities - But it's never gonna happen, and I'm just Howling at the Moon :)

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  7. Excellent post! Personally I will try to make my animal's lives comfortable until the end - and then end it when appropriate (I had to put down a Weimaraner a couple of years ago, EXTREMELY difficult decision - will be facing a similar situation with my Golden soon I fear). If I had a horse, same thing, quality of life would determine length of life. Those who care for their animals and then choose to euth when they no longer serve their purpose or send them to auction, I cannot call the nasty words that are on Cathy's blog. If I disagree so ademantly, then I will take over the animal's care. It is a put up or shut up situation.

    With that post, the only fact known is the horses were sent to auction. They do not know what happened before (maybe nothing, maybe lots time trying to place the horses). Too much "Well I heard...".

    How can you out someone who has not done something illegal or against their association's rules?

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  8. And what about old dairy cows? They helped make their owner money. And they wind up in our burger without a peep out of anyone about how they should get a decent retirement, or not go to auction, or get expensive and futile vet care when there is no hope of them getting better.

    Did people do the Champ horse any favors when they kept him alive on crippled feet so they could gather donations, instead of a ride to the slaughterhouse that would have been over and done with in a much shorter time?

    Why is it more humane to let horses suffer and starve? (I'm thinking of overgrazed ranges and mustangs.) Long term, is it better for horses as a species to keep the crazy and crippled alive or to weed them out?

    How many people get disgusted with all the ranting, or get stuck with a rescue that is nuts, and don't want anything to do with horses ever again?

    Just asking.

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  9. Helen, another question for you. Kill buyers can buy horses directly, so how many farms will just call the kill truck instead of selling horses at an auction where they do have a chance at finding a private owner? The chance at auction may be slim, but at least it's a chance. I see the angst and outing as being a direct cause of more horses being shipped, rather than fewer.

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  10. Many Kill buyers are already buying directly from the farms and Ranches, as well as Craig's List Ads and any other sources they can find - there are always rumblings of KB's getting horses from Rescues, just to sell them to a FLO or to run them through the very same auction house from which they had been purchased in the first place.There's an Auction Rescue group on Face Book who is dealing with this at the moment. KB's buy horses to sell. It's not a business that I like, but it's a legal business and there's not a darned thing Cathy Atkinson can do about it. I'm not saying I approve, and I'm not trying to protect the FLO's or the KB's or the dumpers. I'm just saying that if we are going to help these horses, we are going to have to deal with the people who own the horses.

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  11. Privacy and information has become a sensitive issue today, and to respect it is to respect others a little more.
    IMHO if someone puts their personal information on the internet, on facebook and other sites, can they actually really expect privacy. If someone has a website about themselves and how they deal with their animals, can they expect privacy?
    If someone creates too many animals and then discards them can and should they expect privacy? I think not. I have been part of helping dogs out of puppy mills, and those folks should not expect any privacy, they usually wind up in the news, crying they were only trying to make a living. How is this any different with creating too many Horses and then sending them to kill?

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  12. Here's the thing, it's what they posted on their own time in a place they chose. It is not there to use for harassment and other various cruel acts. That's respecting information given.

    What could be done if the act is against the law is to use that given info responsibly and take it to a place where it is done in a manner that isn't like that of a 5 year old. These people also have a right to refuse interviews for news stations, and choose on their own to reveal faces, names, information, etc.

    That is what I mean when saying to respect privacy and information. Use it in a manner to help those in need, and educate more people.

    As for the issue of selling to KB's or taking to auction: It is not an illegal act, and horses are still livestock. As somebody stated earlier, nobody cries for the culled dairy cow, but will cry for the horse. While I personally could not send off my own to an auction, but that is my choice. What those people did was their choice. Those animals will be used for other purposes, while thousands more out there do need help and can still contribute.

    Puppy mills and horse operations are two different sides of the coin to me. Dumping a dog off somewhere in the city, country, suburbs, etc. is irresponsible and a punishable offense. That is doing a great disservice and is cruel for the animal involved. This animal may starve, freeze, overheat, drown, be shot, killed/eaten, etc. Selling at auction and going to slaughter is not. This horse will not starve, freeze, be attacked, shot, etc.

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  13. Or how about this scenario: I breed quality show dogs, puppies are selling pretty good and winning in the show ring. Now, the bitch is too old to produce more litters and I just discard her at the dog pound to be gassed (yes, some still do this) If a rescue pulls the worn out breeder dog and calls me out on this, do you think the dog community will come to my defense? Hell NO, I will be shunned and not very welcome in the dog show circuit. Why, then, does it create such outrage here if some Horse breeder diccards of his/her horse in such a cruel way. Why would anyone that does this have a right to privacy, after they made sure his/her name is out there?

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  14. Horses are considered pets by most people, not livestock. If you don't think so, try pulling Old Betsy cow out of the pasture and taking her to the next show and bringing home some ribbons.

    Personally, I think Cathy outing these people is a good thing. If nothing else, it will make them realize there are repercussions to their actions, and it may cost them business because of the way they dumped these mares. It may cause other breeders to do the right thing for fear of being outed as well.

    If these people can afford to show in breed shows, they can afford to give their best broodmares a euth and disposal.

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  15. Cathy only cares about herself.

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  16. Maybe I've read one too many high drama, nasty, narcissistic fugly blog. But I found myself feeling a little sorry for these latest people. Sending your horses to the auction isn't a crime! It's not my chosen method of selling, but last I checked it's legal.

    I'm disappointed in the breeder in the fugly post for not ensuring her horses met a kind end with the way transport and regulations are now...the actual sending them for auction and possibly meat doesn't bother me so much. I agree with those who want to find a more humane way of transporting and processing horses. I like the idea of the horses being useful in death rather than euthing and burying all those nasty chemicals in the soil.
    The good thing about the auction is the horses had a last chance to find a home. Supposedly all of these horses ended up in homes... so I guess the trip to the auction didn't work out too bad!

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  17. My beef is with the bottom mare, the dark one. She clearly looks as if she has dsld, and I wish that she wouldn't have to spend her life like that until summer was over to be euthed. Why do they not euth her now? Why are we using our money for horses that will be put down months later? I would rather them put it towards a decent horse with a hope for a future. $400 sale price from a KB, plus the expenses of feeding them, then euth and disposal could be put towards a better means. Euth and expenses following easily exceed $300, which could be put towards training. Heck, maybe the person acquiring the horse can't start horses, but can finish them well enough. That would have been two horses filling a purpose. One for meat and product, one for working/sport.

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  18. "Horses are considered pets by most people, not livestock. If you don't think so, try pulling Old Betsy cow out of the pasture and taking her to the next show and bringing home some ribbons."

    That doesn't change their classification or how they are recognized. They are still livestock, and frankly I believe this should never change for a multitude of reasons. Yes people will consider their horses pets, but not all. Just as goats are considered livestock, my show goat was my pet and we took him to a place where he could act as a companion animal. A majority let theirs go to the meat man. I don't hate them or judge them for it. One girl who had a sheep cried when she had to let hers go, so it is not as if they are heartless in the matter or naive. At the end of the day, however, she knew that it was not a pet. Do we now condemn ever person who takes their show animal to the meat man, too?

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  19. I find it incredibley tiresome to read the much ised "you asshats you sold your poor down trodden ??" at aution knowing full well he/she would be travelling on a double decker to the wilds of CANADA! Where he/she would wait ijn fear wondering why? how could it happen to me? blah bla" The application of human emotion and understanding with feelings of fear and loss is in fact what gets the job done for the likes of Cathy. Using the emotional blackmail, and presenting it in the guise of "rescue" Champane tl Dawn was not "worried" about how he got where he was , he just plain hurt poor old fella . Some of the resues she and her following have been involved in have actually done well and were a viable choice but...As to whether Slaughter plants and meat buyers are the ultimate bad end , I with hold judgment at this time

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  20. Sorry ,big day ,forgot to spell check

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  21. I understand that the breeder was going to take back any horses that were not sold. Thanks to the auction girls and the so called threat of slaughter, they were able to find homes. As far as withholding vet care to the mare with the growth in her eye, I recall Cathy causing a horse to suffer while she raised funds on her board. The horse should have been put down immediately. Where was her compassion? She has quite a history of dumping her old broodmares after she gets tired of footing the bill. Soot's former owners were never contacted regarding the mare being put down. They would have gladly taken her back. So much for saving Soot Cathy. The mare you were going to keep forever and ride.

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  22. Who gets to decide is the real question.

    I don't believe in retirement for horses. I just don't. All the name calling and "heartless" accusations, would you want that to happen to you remarks, aren't going to change my stance. Someone else wants to retire their horse, go for it, you want to retire my horse, have fun. But don't expect me to pay for it. You are doing what you want to do.

    Where the heck is "horses are pets" argument going to get you? Where I live you can send a dog/cat/bird/snake/rabbit etc to the pound with nary a sayonara. You can also do it for your own consumption, so long as you don't slaughter it out in the street or cause a stink (burning feathers.

    If you get to decide that my horse gets a retirement, do I get to decide when your horse gets retired? Does Kestrel get to decide the standard of retirement care? Does Fernvalley decide how long the retirement should be? I just feel better with those decisions left in my hands.

    Yes, we are going to have stinky people doing stinky things, laws or no laws. The laws against drunk driving haven't eliminated that particular societal ill yet. Outing people who do it haven't stopped it either.

    Cathy is using her blog for a bully pulpit. She is using it to make herself feel better without having to sacrifice much. If being anti slaughter were a real big deal to her, one she was willing to sacrifice for, rather than just blog about. That $7,000.00 she spent sending the VLC to his most recent show would have been spent working toward a solution to the horse slaughter problem. There wouldn't have ever been the question about "should I or shouldn't I send VLC to a show" Her priority would have been to spend the money on the slaughter problem. Follow the money, people. Cathy has her priorities, and as far as I can see she has them straight. She wants to have a winning QH stud. That's where her money should go. The fact that she screams about horse slaughter, well, that is a side issue for her. As far as I can tell, it makes her feel powerful to whip up an internet frenzy. Yes, she puts some money where her mouth is, but not the majority of it. Think of the Widow's Mite y'all.

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  23. Kaede, I agree,how could I possibly tell you what is appropriate for you ,your stock , your budget. Taking slaughter away has not helped the unwnated horse in the US , but it certainly has given the Activists a "leg up"
    Cathy outing and inciting hate against individuals on her blog ,is very likely doing more harm than good

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  24. I wouldn't send my horse to an auction, I have a twenty something in retirement, costing me $400 in board a month. Am I stupid? Most definitely, my old guy is my "stupid tax" my husband laughingly reminds me, but this is my crazy choice that I do with my earned money and I don't feel a need to tell the rest of the horse world that they should do exactly as I do.
    I also have a mare, a hated "foundation" Quarter Horse to the Fugly world, that guess what? I'm gonna breed! I don't care that there are a zillion horses needing rescuing. I have a dang nice horse and I'll be keeping the foal myself. I've watched enough of her silly rescue videos and dealt with enough of other people's problems that I don't want to fix another horse when I can breed a very nice one and start from the ground up the right way.
    I'm sure she would love to call me out on this, but for someone that is so dead set on horse over population, and from what I see on Craigslist and these auctions it is Quarter Horses and Paints that are overpopulated, doesn't it seem kind of hypocritical to be keeping a horse a STUD, especially of a breed that is keeping the kill buyer trucks full?
    She is worse than people like me, that will just breed one horse to keep the foal. She's going to potentially be creating many more horses that she isn't keeping. No one that breeds to her stud is going to want her haunting them on how they care for stud's foals until the day the die. Can you imagine the contract she'd come up with? The only nimrods that will want to breed to her stud will be the young twenty somethings that worship her fugliness but they won't have the perfect Quarter Horse mare that will be worthy enough to breed to him.
    And please, someone tell me what is so special about this darn VLC, Cecile, BYC, whomever this horse is. He looks like just another run of the mill Quarter Horse that would make a nice gelding. If she wants to have a stud so bad why doesn't she get one of a breed that you will never see on Craiglist, then maybe someone might take her seriously.

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  25. I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous thread. It's one thing to disagree with Fugly on certain posts or the volatility of her arguments (I don't, personally), but defending these people, the Dinsdales, you're just disagreeing to disagree. It’s very simply wrong. There was no way those mares were going to find homes in their mid twenties, half of them with injuries and significant health problems. Nobody in the market for a horse is looking for a horse like that.

    So you're argument is who cares? We have no right to judge or tell someone else what they can and can't do with their animals? Kaede, you mentioned that we have humane societies to dump our unwanted cats and dogs and pets... well sure we do, but having assisted and volunteered at those types of organizations, how do you really think the within-the-law dumpers are regarded: as irresponsible. How do you think the shelter workers look at the people who are bringing dog after dog, cat after cat, animals they've neglected to care for, into the shelter so that the animals are either euthanized, adopted out and given medical attention on someone else's dime and sweat. Well they don't give them nice looks, I can tell you that. And later they fume about how irresponsible people are, how negligent they are, and how unwilling they are to follow through on the responsibilities they at one point accepted, and leave the mess for someone else to clean up.

    The only way those mares could have ended up safe from the auction is the way they did, that rescuers and people with hearts feel their arms and wallets twisted by the imminent threat of the slaughter truck. And that's not a responsible or acceptable end for these mares either--that big breeders can resort to emotionally blackmailing other people into picking up THEIR slack.

    The truth is that this shows that the Dinsdales didn't care about their horses one bit. So what if it's a business? That doesn't preclude decency and morality. That doesn't mean that you sacrifice your ethics to make a slightly larger profit. Many businesses, both horse and non-horse, are able to find ways to treat their animals

    The only way your objections to Fugly's point work is if you accept these claims, and mostly in this language:

    1. We don't have a right to tell anyone else how they can keep and dispose of their animals, much less publicly voice our opinions about it. Once you get into this territory it gets awfully gray awfully quickly, and the implications can spread into nearly any animal-welfare/rights regulation. The truth is that we as a society have entered into a social contract of sorts that is completely at odds with this stance. We have all kinds of explicit regulating and governing that does not give people the right to allow their whims and personal feelings to dictate how they can behave and act, from how they are allowed to keep their lawns, to parenting their children, to keeping their animals, to insuring and safety inspecting their cars, to registering their dogs. Of course, right now I am referring to explicitly legal regulating of our behavior. There are social pressures and social regulating as well that influence us daily, in ways hidden and obvious. You can't tell me that it's irrelevant. It's a crucial part of a healthy society, and a really important supplement to law. I wont explain it here, but if what I’m saying sounds totally strange to you, and you really think that your peers, family, neighbors and even strangers do not in some collective way impact your behavior, please do some research about the idea of “civil society.”

    2. That you support horse slaughter as a viable and agreeable way to dispose of older horses that no longer have use. That you condone the fact that people can literally "use" an animal without any regard or care towards its LONGTERM welfare.

    (cont. below)

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  26. (cont from above)

    3. (ties into 2) That you believe the gray area that the horse inhabits, somewhere between pet and livestock, somehow frees an owner of responsibility towards the horse once it is too old to work. That you honestly believe that because the Dinsdales ran a BUSINESS they had the right to treat their LIVE horses like they would a car or machine or even cow, that once it's usefulness is up, it can be discarded in whichever manner is quickest and cheapest. That there is no issue between marketing their horses as mostly pets and companion animals, and yet, treating their own animals as simply profit or loss. That the responsible and loving care of their horses is not at all a part of an IMPLICIT contract that they have with their clients, most of whom would probably be horrified to hear about this. That they do not have an obligation to their older horses—who have produced profit for them—as they grow old and vulnerable and more than ever, need protection and care.

    4. That the fact that Cathy is using her money to market her stud somehow bars her from having and voicing her opinion. That Cathy is obligated to put every cent she has and earns towards rescue, and rescue only. I'm not sure I follow this logic, or see how this paints Cathy as a hypocrite. She has not bred her stud yet; he has two foals from before she bought him. She has never advocated against responsible breeding, and actually, the propagation of quality horses. While it remains to be seen what the VLC's future worth as a sire/stud will be, I don't see how her interest in QUALITY and RESPONSIBLE breeding somehow preclude her from having and voicing an opinion about irresponsible breeding and irresponsible horse owners.

    If you REALLY agree with these points, then I guess there’s not much else I can say.

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  27. As for previous comments on why FHOTD's popularity has fallen, I don't know and don't check it out often. Does she have less time to respond to comments now that she is working in a law firm full-time as well as exercising polo phonies after-hours and some weekends? Maybe lack of usual interaction with her readers is a factor, if that has indeed occurred? Just wondering, since some seem so anxious to get her attention and she has less time for them these days?

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  28. Oh dear sweet...It's 4am and I'm about to go to bed. For some reason I read through the comments section of the most recent FHOTD post. Talk about some whack-jobs. Good gravy. If I see one more biased link I think I'm going to have to taser myself.

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  29. anonymous 11:38~
    Who decides that this is "very simply wrong?"

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  30. Her popularity has dropped because she is a whack-job.

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  31. I do not think this thread is defending the breeders who sent their horses to auction. The options vary here and we can discuss them in a respectful manner.

    First, we do not have all the information as to what happened so I will not demonize someone without facts and only here-say.

    Second, while some of us may not condone this particular method, it is not illegal. Like it or not, that is the case (and how do you out someone for doing a legal activity?).

    Third, why are THESE people being demonized when I am sure there were many other horses there? Why not out every single person who sends a horse to auction?

    I like this thread/blog because it is looking for varying opinions and can discuss them without meanness or attacking. That is not something I have seen on the other blog.

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  32. I love horses as much as anyone, but I do not think ANY of them work hard enough to "deserve" a retirement. And neither does nature. Broodmares live a life very similar to their wild cousins, but I don't see nature worried about a cushy retirement for older horses. Nature kills them in a very cruel manner, much crueler than a captive bolt.
    That does not make me a bad person. It makes me a realist.I have never sold any of my old horses for slaughter but that is because I use my EMOTIONS when it comes to MY horses.
    You are crazy to expect people to use the same emotional or moral compass as you do. You can only legislate a minimum standard. That minimum standard is already in place in the form of animal welfare laws.

    To the person who stated that the animal shelter folks roll their eyes and give dirty looks to people who drop off their dogs. I would expect nothing less. They are just as misaligned as Fugs is. People who spend thousands of dollars on chemotherapy for a 10 year old dog, or put an animal with no legs or a broken back in a wheel chair, or spend hundreds of dollars a month on a 16 yr old cat with renal failure are nuts too. Those animals should be euthanized as there are dozens of others that need the funds more.
    I feel the same way about horses.

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  33. She's exercising 'Polo Phonies?'...Sorry, the whole idea of using the words 'Civil Society' and 'Cathy Atkinson' in the same argument tickled my 'Sense of Humor', and everything went 'downhill' after that :)

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  34. There's also the questions that arise when we consider one animal's long term welfare, and the long term welfare of a species. Cows are successful as a species...because we milk and eat individuals, and turn their hides into coats and tennis shoes. Horses are successful as a species because we ride (or drive, etc.) them. Some people also eat them and tan their hides. Turning horses into nothing but big pets may not be the wisest move for the species, long term.

    Note that animal shelter people do not scream "bad owner" at the people dropping off dogs, since they are well aware that the dogs will simply wind up in worse circumstances if they discourage people from dropping dogs off at the shelter. Some dogs are taken to shelters for perfectly valid reasons. The dog may have been wandering loose, or more than the owner can handle. There is no solution that meets every single circumstance.

    The point being made has nothing to do with personal feelings, for or against, about the people fhootd blasted. The question is: does 'outing,' attacking and maligning people who take horses to auctions contribute to more horses going directly to slaughter, being abandoned or starved, in the long run?

    We've already discussed the fact that many of today's horses are not able to perform the jobs that make them desirable to most owners for reasons ranging from health, temperament, age, conformation, etc. What do we do with them? We need to find a realistic and humane solution. The pro slaughter people are the first ones to advocate things like 'knacker trucks' and humane holding and kill facilities, and humane transport. So far all I'm hearing from the anti-slaughter crowd is based on sentiment and 'how things ought to be.' We could really use some practical input. The rescue solution does not appear to be able to absorb the number of horses on the market. That may correct itself as fewer horses are being bred because of the economy, but it will take several years. Making everyone who owns or breeds horses keep every last one until it dies of old age would mean that most breeders would go bankrupt, and any child who got a first horse would be stuck with it for life!

    Helen, the 'Polo Phonies' must be a Freudian slip...!

    The fhothd blog displays a disturbingly unrealistic view of horse ownership, and a bully mentality that is determined to shove one person's personal views down everyone's throat with no discussion or facts to support her position. As a horseman, I have an obligation to address the issues presented.

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  35. Polo Phonies LMAO Id think of something witty but Im laughing too hard!

    Poor Cathy and blah blah she is doing so good Blah blah MY ASS Why can she afford to show her horse? She welches off everyone else! She is a scumbag plain and simple and will turn on you in a second August 11, 2010 10:46 PM Anon. Why dont you grab your lollipop, jump back on your Unicorn and ride back over the rainbow!
    Cathy why did you take Soot from TDR? And why didnt you tell them you were putting her down? She was lame and you knew it but you took her anyway to wear like some badge against Dean Solomon She had the best retirement home ever, isnt that what you preach? Oh yeay do as I say...

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  36. Soot was one of Cathy Atkinson's obsessions. She HAD to have that horse. HAD. TO. She HAD to prove that Dean did not rescue properly and SHE was better at it. Why was Soot just fine and dandy where she came from and in Cathy Atkinson's hands deemed too untrustworthy to let live? Cathy Atkinson is the Dr Death of horse retirement. She is definitely pink juice happy.

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  37. I was trying to read FHOTD and got this....

    Error establishing a database connection

    What the heck?

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  38. I guess I have to disagree with what looks like 90% of you.

    1) Horses may be technically considered "livestock" but I defy anyone of you to refute the fact that, as a species, they have been far more involved and important to the human race (in the USA) than any livestock animal that exists and as a matter of fact any other animal that exists.

    I guess some of you have forgotten that African-Americans were also considered "livestock," and for that matter, women were considered "chattel" as well.

    2) If anyone thinks that packing horses like sardines into a double decker truck, shipping them for many miles without even the most basic of needs met, running them through the slaughter houses and meeting an end with a captive bolt is okay, well, I pity you.

    3) I believe in retirement for my horses, my dogs, my cats and my alpacas. I have them, I kept them, they have served whatever need I had for them, it is my responsibility to take care of them when their time has come.

    If I were like some of you, I would dump my 28 yo retired show hunter with ringbone at an auction or dump my 13 yo dalmation with cushings at the pound. Who gives a rat's ass that they gave me all they had to give, loved and trusted me in their own equine/canine way. Their usefulness is done, so send em on the "truck."

    Funny thing is, a .22 bullet is very cheap and the price of a backhoe isn't that much. No drugs to pollute the ground and let's face it, the body becomes fertilizer. But I guess, if you take your old broodie, decrepit schoolie or gimpy riding/working horse to an auction, you might get a few bucks. Let us not confuse the issue with something awful like compassion or sentimentalilty for a creature who at one time, meant something to us.

    Of course, this is just me and the way I am, the rest of you are entitled to be the way you are.

    I thank dog that I am NOT that way!

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  39. Oh CCC, I agree, I havedone and continue to retire my horses at home , my beloved old Catana,Sunshine, Chips etc and in due time had them pts at my home. That said ,those are choices I make , and while I may or may not agree with the rest I don't feel that I should have the right or ability to enforce my will or standards upon them.The biggist issue I have with the fugly blog , ids the "my way or the hiway" approach and the cyber bullying she perpetuates

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  40. CCC, truly I'm with you all the way. My 29 year old with COPD, the 24 year old that has never been sound, old brood mare, those are my darlings and they've earned their keep. Totally agree that inhumane transport is wrong, including some show circuit transport. Totally agree that their end must come swift and painless, and don't let them stand around suffering.

    I also understand, may not agree with but understand, the folks who just can't afford to keep old Dobbin, can't bear to just kill him, and think he may have a small chance to get a good home at the auction. I'd like to see options to that, but it doesn't seem to be happening. I'm supporting as many as I can. What do I do with the horses that are being abandoned and suffering here in my area?! I've found homes for 4 of them. Only 4. One neglect seizure alone, just this year, was 17 head of starved horses that had been abandoned by someone who just moved away. Those were the ones still alive, the rest had starved to death. If they'd been shipped and slaughtered, at least they wouldn't have suffered for months. Why don't horsepeople support and fund euth clinics more often? It could be that he last one we had here had activists screaming, with signs and cameras, that the people who brought their horses in were murderers. In our area you can't bury carcasses because the water table is too high. Euth and disposal is $380.00, and some vets will really treat you like dirt if you're putting down a horse, even if it's vicious, crippled or aged. It drives me crazy that the rescues here fought with each other to the point that no one will donate to the new one at all.
    fubb has railed aboout auctions, but also railed at people who were trying to find the horse a home by advertising.

    I wish there was an easy solution.

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  41. CCC here is a real live example for you.

    I had a mare, she was in her 20's, she was loosing her teeth, she was loosing weight, probably less than a 3 when I finally threw in the towl. Could I have bought expensive food for her every day.. you bet, could I have fattened her back up.. you bet.

    The problem? the other horses I owned. I couldn't afford to fee that mare properly, and still feed the rest properly.

    Could I have given my other horses away.. probably.. could I have saved them from slaughter doing that? a notion we could sit here and debate all day.

    So I did the hardest thing, and had her put down.. and was fortunate to be able to do so, and fortunate to have enough land to bury her here on the place (may have broke a law or two, but they gotta find out about it first) Lucky enough to have access to something that could dig a whole instead of paying $250 an hour to rent it.

    Odds are pretty good these people are a victim of the econnomy (sp?) just like many other are.. and they had to make some hard choices, and couldn't afford to euth them all, bury or have them hauled off, and still pay the feed bill, along with all the other bills.

    Horse breeders are eternal optimists, I'm sure they decided to cut their losses on those mares, so they could go on to promote and take care of the rest. They were not the people that made the money on those mare, those mares actually got a second chance to be productive at their place, before they were sent to auction.. follow the ownership trail!

    Look at it any way you want, but don't sit there and say "that won't happen to MY horses" when any single one of us could be hit by a bus tomorrow, and our non horsey relatives may get to decide what happens.

    If you want to take away the auction option, Fine, but you dang well better have another option in place other than euthing them or taking care of them till they die.

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  42. Is anyone else wondering who is going to breed to the VLC (Big Yellow Caddi) after she gets that ROM in whatever on him?

    Will the western pleasure people breed to him? when other wp studs, with better breeding/better show records are available?

    Will it only be the open show people, bringing in their sale barn mares, with dreams and naive hopes?

    Will she have to go and buy only the mares she wants, and then close him to outside breeding and then try to promote her own foals?

    I don't think she understands what a serious handicap she's got going.. specially in this market.. she could have gone out and bought a nicer stud horse for that $7000.. may even have already had show points, and proven get (serious bargains to be had when studs are 15 or older.. so sad!)

    I wish her good luck and all, but I think she is in the state of denile over who will breed to a horse that has less than perfect conformation, less than fashionable pedigree, and, at least so far, isn't really that compedative?

    She would get soooo many kudos for gelding him, but instead will forever be defending him as a stud. And ripping down other studs, just so she can justify it in her own mind.

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  43. ANON, my opinion is based on my life and what I feel. I did not make my statement based on Fugly's latest post, I haven't read it, nor will I. In my life, Fugly and her blog mean less than the horse/paca poo that I throw in the manure spreader. At least that poo provides a benefit to the flora that lives here on my farm, Fugly? Well, drivel does nothing but cause slimy stuff on the ground.

    I also think you have misunderstood me, in your situation, I would have done the same thing, put her down. My problem is people who have a situation like you did or what I have here and instead of taking care of it responsibly, they take them to auction. To me, that is the easy way out for that situation.

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  44. Heh...I saw that $7000 for one show. WTF??? Is she that set on having a stallion? He's just not all that. For a few hundred she could have him gelded, for a couple thousand more she can have him trained to be a good pleasure horse and actually have something to ride.

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  45. Additionally, please do not make assumptions, I can and do sit here and say that "it will not happen to my horses" or my dogs, or my cats, or my alpacas. I have a legal plan and I have the funds set aside to take care of whatever might happen and my non-horsey family will abide by it.

    It is called PLANNING for the future.

    As someone who was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 45, I am not stupid, I think of the future. Unfortunately, too many people don't, but please do not make blanket statements, I despise that.

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  46. Here is something I learned in rescue. I can NOT save them all. Nor should I. It applies to everyone.
    And I do not know about everypne else but I am damn tired of being told what I have to do and what I should do. My money and my time I reserve the right to make that call in all legal venues. It is a right that everyone has.

    Dena

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  47. I'm getting the same error, too, trying to get to her blog. No great loss.

    CCC I love ya. Plain and simple.

    Anon 2:06, I know your pain over trying to feed up one horse properly to help it gain while, while trying not to let another turn into Mr(Miss) Staypuft! I think I'm going to have to do what you so bravely did as well, and soon.

    I love you guys, each and every one. Our opinions vary, sometimes greatly, but we haven't forgotten the important thing. We're all people here, and can respect each other.

    ~DK

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  48. Why is she insisting on professional pictures? Hasn't one of her things been that decent pictures are so simple a cavewoman can do them? All you need to do is a quick groom, maybe a bath, etc.

    If she can't show us conformation shots of her stud then maybe, just maybe it's not as easy as she's told us.

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  49. Or that big flaw just keeps glaring...;)

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  50. DK, I have not been feeling too loved lately, so thanks for that, gave me a big smile, LOL!

    I do want to clarify that I am not against auctions, I know that there are good ones and they most certainly serve a good purpose.

    I am against people who take old, sick, crippled or worn out horses to auctions. I don't think I need to further elaborate why.



    I really wish Fugly would elaborate why she thinks Cecil would make a good breeding stallion, even with a performance record.

    His breeding is not that special, he isn't exactly lighting up the show ring and there are probably 1000 other stallions just like him with his credentials or better. This is coming from someone who thinks he is pretty and has a special fondness for buckskins.

    My theory is that it is because he is hers. Even though we all know how she obtained him, she has probably never had anything close to him in quality (at least while it was young and able) so she holds him in very high regard whether deserved or not.

    Poor Cecil!

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  51. CCC, I agree he is not a bad horse , just not so remarkable to me . That said I have 2 breeding stallions that may not be someone elses cup of tea. I feel as though she is setting herself up in a glass house with Cecil and we know how that works . And for what its worth girl , you know I love ya!

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  52. kes,

    "The fhothd blog displays a disturbingly unrealistic view of horse ownership"

    Really? How is that? It seems that the bottom line of that blog is that people ought to be responsible and euthanize their no longer wanted horses versus selling them off, potentially for meat.

    I guess that asking people to behave responsibly is fairly unrealistic considering human track records on things like drug use, DUI, unwanted pregnancies, obesity and excessive debt.

    We do live in a culture geared towards discarding things the minute they lose their shine, but should it really be that way? Shouldn't there be even a silver of reverence for the animal that ran, jumped, spun, crossed rivers, bore foals for you?

    Use 'em up and throw 'em out!

    WRT Cathy's stallion... he seems pretty plain Jane, if you ask me. He's plenty old enough to actually be campaigned in something, anything to back up her claims that he needs to DO something to earn the right to stay intact. She really needs to poop or get off the pot on that one.

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  53. Well, this post is close to my heart today. I put down one of our horses today. I'd only had him a few years, got him along with an old pony for some "oldies" for my kids. Sweet ole quarterhorse, ranch broke. Pretty guy, palomino who had some looks to him even in old age.
    And it was sad to put him down, but it was time, and boy, do I feel relieved now that I have done it. I didn't realize I was stressing out over the horse as much as I guess I was. But he was old, real creaky/weak in the hind end, VERY hard to keep weight on, got the diarrhea all the time, would get a runny nose after I wormed him, and...to top it all off, got some sort of allergy in the last week which went into his eyes which got all swollen up like crazy and then apparently he had (or that led to?) glaucoma so he was pretty well blind in one and going so in the other...
    So he had some grain, apple slices and pets from the girls and PTS.
    I would have never sent him to auction because I know how incredibly stressful that would have been. A horse of some value, in not this economy...I would probably consider going to auction. Auctions weren't so bad when people really did go there to buy horses. Now...yikes!
    As far as retirement, if I had a horse that I had outgrew or whatever, I wouldn't feel like I needed to keep that horse around forever if it could be of value to another owner. I would try and find a decent one but...I wouldn't require a bunch of craziness on the future owner. Just like I wouldn't take a horse from somebody with a bunch of crazy "strings attached." Once it's my responsibility, it's my responsibility - like it or not you sold me the damn thing and if you wanted to rule it's world than you should have kept it!
    I think that's the biggest problem a lot of us have - who deems what is acceptable to be retired, in a retirement home, etc, etc...We all have a lot of different ideas on the right way to treat a horse and I think their is a LOT of "grey" area in what is acceptable. I think blanketing and stalling horses is just about the most ridiculous thing ever and ain't good for them one bit. Yet I know (and respect) many of you who do just that. Do I feel like it would be right for me to tell you not to blanket and stall your horses? Heck no. But I also don't want to hear you tell me is that I should be!
    What I think many folks are saying on here is we don't want somebody else imposing THEIR moral codes on OUR horses....
    And the think about Fugly, even though I do sometimes agree with her, is that she is real good at imposing!

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  54. So agree CCC, it isn't so much she wants to keep him a stud, he is 'ok' at least, if not steller, but the whole "MY stud can RIDE" making him better than those other five studs "put together" screams she has to rip other horses down to make her self feel better about leaving VLC a stud.

    Tells me that she deep down, really knows he doesn't 'make the grade' for the standards she's been spouting for everyone else's horse, but she can't admit she's wrong.

    Have to be honest with yourself first, or you can't be honest with anyone.

    Big hugs to Prairie Farmer.. been there, done that.

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  55. Heres the big picture, speaking as someone who has a diploma hanging on my wall in Equine Science I would have to say the author of FuglyHorse is bang on!
    She is pointing out everything that is wrong in the horse industry IE:

    Dont let your toddler child stand on a pony's back helmetless and barefoot with the reins dragging on the ground that are attached to a non-child friendly shank bit.

    Stop breeding animals with poor conformation. It just continues a vicious cycle of low quality horses who end up going lame just walking around their paddock and therefore someone thinks it would be a great idea to breed..ect?!?!

    Where SHOES, GLOVES, and proper saftey equipment when handeling horses. They are large unpredicatable animals and it is a matter of keeping yourself and the horse SAFE. Is this not OBVIOUS?!

    Take care of your animal! Call the vet if they are sick, need to be gelded, or for routine care. FEED your horses properly, if you dont not know how LEARN about equine nutrition requirements.

    And most importantly EDUCATE yourself!!! Dont be a "backyard knowitall cowboy." These people just make themselves look ignorant and common sense seem not so common. Know what good conformation is, the appropriate tack to use, PROPER safety practices, health and nutrition requirments, desirable breeding traits, pasture managment, first aid care, ect ect......

    Oh and p.s Dont abuse your horses.... ya.. duh.

    These are all the points this lady is trying to make. And if it seems harsh or blunt, its beacuse it IS. To someone who acutally has real experience in the horse industry with an education, it is SO appropriate. Perhaps it will be insulting to those people displayed but hopefully it wakes them up to their ignorant ways... although I doubt it lol!

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  56. To the anon above at 6:55am. Not condescending at all your post. No not one bit. "As someone who actually has a diploma hanging on the wall in equine science".
    I have found over the years that it is a rare individual diploma or not who actually knows whereof they speak with regard to equines. All equines not just their own.
    Calling fugs a lady made me smile and hopefully her too.

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  57. Anon 6:55, I don't believe anyone here thinks that Fugly doesn't make some excellent points, because she does.

    Alot of being in horses is common sense, no degree needed or required. Unfortunately, it is also a trait that is lacking in far too many people and yes, education is a good thing and will help some people, others, not so much.

    Fugly has a tendency to not practice what she preaches. Here you are talking about how she espouses proper safety and proper equipment when working with or around horses and yet, she works around horses wearing tennis shoes, and yes, she rides in tennis shoes and no helmet. Seems a big contradiction to me.

    She also likes to voice her opinion on various topics that she really has no knowledge of and when it is pointed out to her that she is wrong, instead of admitting she is wrong and learning from those who know more, she either falls back on "it is my OPINION," or totally ignores it altogether.

    I can get the same information, education and knowledge from many, many other sources that are of much higher caliber than anything that Fugly has to offer, therefore, I do.

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  58. Anon 6:55 am you are correct that those points need to be made; HOWEVER, the blog progressed from what you described (and in its early day it was close to that) to one that seems self serving and outing people who are not at fault. There is also a lot of mean spiritedness making fun of people who are overweight, not of the "class" deemed fit to own a horse and making fun of children. It seems to have backed off lately on the meanness but unfortunately the valid points you would like seen made get lost due to that.

    Yes, sometimes you have to come across harsh to get through to some people. But the fugly blog evolved into something else. It seems odd that some people are targeted when others (mostly advertisers) are not. And those advertisers have pictures of people with incorrect gear, children without helmets, etc. but they are not "outed".

    There is now an inconsistency in the message and couple that with the mean spiritedness and those valid points are lost.

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  59. If YOUR horse is sick, aged, weary, lame and can no longer fulfill YOUR needs and desires, why not ship him for slaughter? Hey you might even make a couple of hundred bucks. Why would you spend money on a vet bills to euthanize a horse, and then all that messy stuff about disposing of the body when a quick trailor ride is just so much easier. Never mind the money that YOU spent on horse shows, farriers, vet bills, tack, etc when you horse was fulfilling YOUR pride and ambition. Why should you be RESPONSIBLE for this living creature that tried to serve you admirably. You know guys this is what is wrong with the humane race. It is ME ME ME, I I I, WANT WANT WANT. It is really tough to do the right thing, it takes tremendous courage and character to forego your own desires for the betterment of another person or animal. I would ask that you google Bill C544 and help ban horse slaughter in Canada.

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  60. Thank You for the Information on the Canadian Bill, Mau. Here in America we've been fighting the same battle for years. The current version of the effort is H.R.503/S.B.727. It was introduced in the 2007-2008 session but will be pending through 2010, and would amend the Federal Criminal Code, taking it out of the hands of the Agricultural Committees which managed to stall all the past versions, most recently H.R. 503/S.B. 311...But passing the Bill will not solve the problem of all the unwanted Horses. We can't just sit and complain about Slaughter Issues, or say that everyone but a 'chosen few' Humans are evil and cruel. If we honestly care about the Horses, we have to start discussing how we are going to help them, and what can be done to ease the suffering of the Aged, Ill and Broken...IMO

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  61. What CCC said! What Helen said! I wish with all my heart that every horse would have a sane owner...and every dog...and every kid would have a sane parent. Wishing doesn't make it so. That's why we need dog pounds, foster care, and some sane solution for horses.

    Stalking and encouraging hatred toward people who tried to give away a yearling, had to make cold rational decisions about their herd size, had the nerve to ask for help when they got in over their head, or let their kid pet a horse without a helmet on, and trashing rescues that do not advertise on her blog, makes horse people look like lunatics! Fubb herself is not exactly a representative of responsible ownership. I resent the heck out of her claiming to be the perfect horseperson, or a spokesman for the entire industry. She does not, repeat not, represent the best owners that I know. The steady ones like CCC do more good than all the screechers and yowlers combined.

    Again, what Helen said. We need some solutions. If you want to stop slaughter, propose some other way to deal with thousands of unwanted horses. Stirring up even more angst is totally counter productive.

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  62. Mau, at first I thought you were being serious (like the people denying that horse owners have the obligation to provide their horses with some kind of a retirement) and then i realized you were being sarcastic.... Thank god. and good point. With you all the way. Enough entitlement.

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  63. Mau, until we can improve animal care laws for ALL of them, all domestic animals, we'll (I'm using the royal we, as I don't own a horse anymore) just sound like a bunch of rich (I know, I know) horse-crazy women.

    I support Twyla's other site CETFA, heartily. That's a more logical direction to go, in my opinion. Laws just LOVE to generalize. An animal is an animal.
    That has to stop.
    I mean, think about it. The Bill C50 law finally made it illegal to starve an animal to death. I can't figure out why it would be legal in the first place.
    Puppy Mills are legal. This was actually happily legalized by Bill C50.
    Any animal can be locked in a cage, 24/7/365, for the rest of it's days.
    Horses included.
    That's wrong, to me.
    Property. Animals are property/profit/loss. In the eyes of some, I'm saying. How to change those eyes?

    No idea.

    loved all the comments, btw.
    applause to y'all.

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  64. Cool website GL. It's actually a reasonable approach to humane treatment that is ALREADY IN PLACE in other countries. Who knew that could be possible! It seems that very few groups are moderate. The 'all or nothing' mentalities stink. The polarization of animal welfare groups leads directly to nothing at all being accomplished.

    The other thing is to make it species specific, based on the animal's needs...I wouldn't want to have to let the python out every day! Most laws are long winded anyway. Why can't laws be passed for separate types of animal, and even sub groups within species?

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  65. OMG-I just found this blog and you all are discussing so many of the questions I have had re: FHOTD. How refreshing. Thanks!

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  66. I'm impressed. If this had been the fugly blog everyone would have ripped on anon 6:55 for having boasted about having a degree and then not being able to spell worth a darn.

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  67. LOL we make up our own words here Welcome!

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  68. Go CETFA! What a Super site, Thank You Go Lightly,I'm kinda scattered at the moment and only had a second to scan the 'cover page' but I've bookmarked it for study..Do you figure we could kidnap that group and bring them here, to the States, to start something like this in America...or would that be wrong ? :)

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  69. I'm baack for two minutes, before I get dragged off again...CCC. I've been trying to 'work up' the courage , for days, to ask about the Little Fella. Is he doing better? The tests were supposed to come back last Monday, weren't they?

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  70. Helen, you are a sweetie for thinking of my guy Tip. WNV was negative, so we really don't know what happened. He is MUCH better, not 100% but about 90%. We are keeping a close eye on him for relapse, but so far so good!

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  71. I remember something that JR once said on this whole crappy subject and Crappy Cathy as he called her. It was on one of the blogs. He said that Cathy doesn't even live up to her own hype. She has nothing better to do than to stir it up and causeore grief in peoples lives. And though he did buy into all of it for a while. He realised The Crappy Cathy Doll as he put it likes to sit back and watch peoples lives go to hell. But what got most of all is when he said Cathy will be judged at some point on her life and lets hope she can justify all of the shit she's caused.

    B

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  72. B:

    I think it's going to come back to haunt her in the form of her stallion. Maybe not now, but it will happen, especially with her blog and all the archived moments plus her writing for HI. Worse yet, I think it may come back to haunt that poor trainer of hers, too. There are some clientele who are just too much of a gamble to deal with.

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  73. I'm like anon above. Really like the "civil discourse" on this blog! So nice. I mean, I'm a pretty good speller generally speaking (I have my moments) but I really don't care if people can't spell as long as they are making valid, civil points. Who the hell cares! (And this is coming from somebody with a journalism degree!).
    And yes, FHOTD does make a lot of great good points that we all can agree on in equine care. It just kinda, gets crazy "Human Search Flesh Engine like" beyond that at times. Which is why this blog is so nice.
    And does everyone else think GL is just totally brilliant or is that just me?
    On a lighter note, I have the funniest vet of all time and I have to share some of his comments when he was out helping me put Sunny Boy to sleep. Keep in mind that my vet also speaks with a low, rumbly kinda jumbled up - drawling voice that is particular unique as that at some point in his career he accidentally injected himself with something that affected his ability to speak. Plus he chewed too much tobacco.
    Me - while discussing whether it would be worth it to try and treat horribly swollen eyeballs when treatment likely wouldn't work, horse was probably blind, a bitch to keep weight on, and appeared hind end might go out at anytime...
    "Poor old guy. He just isn't good for much of anything any more."
    Doc: "Well, he's good for the vet."
    Then, while actually doing the deed...(first time this scenario for me). I'm holding horse. Doc hasn't said a word in the 5 to 10 minute prep time proceeding. Then says to me...
    "Ya might want to stand back so he don't fall on ya."
    Horses falls over stone dead.
    Then later, after Doc leaves and I'm telling my Dad about this. (I was especially impressed by the no-drama PTS procedure!). My Dad tells me about a time Doc was out helping him treat a bunch of sick cows. He gave my Dad a bucket of pills for a calf and said -
    "Give him one of these every day until he dies."
    And Doc was spot on!

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  74. "Give him one of these every day until he dies."
    Ain't that the truth, sick calve sure can go either way in a big hurry

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  75. CS, I agree with you about how Karma is going to come bit her in the ass! But then again, she will be able to place the blame for any of his failures on that instead of where it really belongs, because Fugly can't be wrong.

    PF,

    1) Nope, not just you, GL is brilliant and a really good person. I have loved her style ever since I "met" her on FHOTD.

    2) I love your vet, that is what I would call a "character."

    Gary has been my vet for about 20 years now. He is a good, solid large animal vet and a really funny guy. Man, if you have something that needs to be stitched, he is the greatest, and he is really good with the pacas. The man could stick a turnip one time and get blood.

    What is especially fun is that he is a musician and is the lead guitarist and singer for a very popular local band. He does a great version of "Mustang Sally," and does better Dire Straits than Dire Straits does, LOL!

    What is it about large animal vets that make them so "interesting."

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  76. PF-sorry for the loss of your boy.

    Your dad's story reminded me of the time my mom and a friend of hers got their hands on a bunch of bucket calves that they were going to raise and then sell to make a little extra money. A late spring blizzard hit and was so bad that the calves were freezing in the barn. My mom's friend walked from her house to ours (no one had 4-wheel drives back then) and started helping my mom drag those calves into the house. We had calves covered in blankets laying all over and my mom and her friend were frantically rubbing them and trying to get warm milk and brandy down their throats to get them warmed up, but the calves started dying.

    It wasn't long after that that my mom and her friend started pouring the brandy down their own throats. They were trying to save the remaining calves, bawling like babies and getting drunk as skunks. They did save a few and those calves lived in our kitchen for the next few days.

    My mom said never again and after that we were only allowed to have one bucket calf at a time.

    I asked my mom about that little incident awhile back and she said that was probably one of the most awful days of her life, losing all of those calves...and she said she was very grateful for that very large bottle of brandy.

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  77. PF, I love you. However..
    "is that just me?"
    Yup. Just a lone, lunatic voice in this crowd.

    I'm sorry I haven't commiserated more about your boy, you know my drill.
    How lucky he was to have had you there. All that matters to any sentient being, really.
    Some horses sure are luckier than others.

    HAH! Love that story, BEC! I mean, I didn't love it, you know..

    To the earliest Anon, is culling tossing? Would you condemn a breeder who culls a gene expression that threatened the specie's health?
    Just asking, don't hit me.
    Because in animals, it sure seems to be the "ewwwwww" factor that sells more.
    Sorry, some go "Ooooooh".
    NeveR mind..

    Thanks again, PF, ya gooopy farmer. Your story brought me some tears for the ones that aren't so lucky.
    dang.. Helluva good belly laugh, first, of course.
    Great character, what a line..

    You too, CCC!
    FV too, or she'll think I fergot her.

    I'm watching "Mamma Mia", that's how I lighten up:)
    Meryl for President!
    Okay, Vice. Why not? At least people would know who the VicePresident is.
    just a thought.

    Chiquitita out.

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  78. You know we all love ya GL! You make us think, really think, about the big picture.

    The farm and ranch stories are always interesting. It's easy to forget that when you're breeding and raising animals it can get complicated. BEC's story, for instance, could be turned around into 'OMG, they took the calves and weren't set up for them perfectly and some died, what horrible people!!!' (Not me BEC! Had calves and bum lambs in the kitchen, too!) Some people will insist on spending thousands on a weak or deformed animal, other people want to spend their money on the healthy ones.

    It should be a case where we work together, because people who view horses as livestock and people who view horses as pets pretty much agree on the basics of care. The judgments and animosity do nothing to achieve the goal of decent lives and kind deaths for horses.

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  79. PF Loved the story and the rest of you gals' too! I have a Vet like that and he has come to love my goofy TB but tells me "Ill deny that"

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  80. Well said Kes, as always!


    BTW, I would love to scritch the tummies of the two horses rolling in the picture up top!

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  81. Word Verf was Quitless!

    I need to keep that in mind!

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  82. Kestral, I love your comment, "people who view horses as livestock and people who view horses as pets pretty much agree on the basics of care."

    This is important to keep in mind; sometimes my little peabrain forgets that.

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  83. Just found this blog. Its been interesting. I often get irritated (and my husband always asks me WHY do you keep reading?) reading fuglyblog. A lot of times she makes Valid points.... others I think shes full of it.
    1.her extreme hatred of Foundation QH's.... which IMO look more like a quarter horse then these tb looking things. I like bull dog qh's.
    2. Her my way or the highway attitude
    3. That if you use ANY form of NH you are insane
    4. and her Stallion is Gods gift to the horse world.
    Speaking of VLC notice how she goes off on the Krazy Kolor breeders and how they breed less the spectacular horses just for the color when she in fact is doing the same thing? That and the fact that VLC had two OOOPPPS foals.

    As for the whole slaughter debate. I am Pro-slaughter in the fact that I feel it is a necessary evil. I would prefer to see a horse go to slaughter then to starve in a field or be "set free" in the hills.
    I wish there wasn't a need for it, but honestly law enforcement can't enforce the laws already in place so how are they going to enforce new ones? I mean people still drink and drive, people still kill each other, people still fight dogs and abuse/neglect animals (and people).
    So I guess until we live in a perfect world where every horse has a perfect home... slaughter is necessary IMO

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  84. Ahh, guys...I thought of something fun. I know I've been slacking on the AotM, but maybe once in a blue moon I could put up a picture of a horse to confo critique. I won't state discipline, the horse, anything. Just one or a few photos and then I leave you guys to say what you think, etc.

    Good idea, bad idea?

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  85. CS good idea. I would love to listen to that dialogue as I am hopeful to have a horse again (one day).

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  86. Awesome idea CS! I always think it is fun to look at horses and discuss form to function in stock horses. It would be cool to learn more about desireable (and undesireable) characteristics on other breeds as well too.

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  87. CS, I think that would be a great idea. I have some knowledge but am by no means an expert. I would enjoy getting everyone's perspective on different horses.

    It is always interesting to me to know that while certain types of confo don't work for certain jobs, it is desired for other jobs.

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  88. I am no expert, either. I can spot really easily seen basic stuff and that's about it.

    I've actually found a horse with some really nice pictures. It's of my favorite breed, but I won't say which one it is. I'm going to write it up now ans save it. If you are antsy enough I'll go ahead and post it tonight.

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  89. She is a disgusting narcissistic pig. Now she's picking on children. I asked her about it, why she would do such a thing, and she threatened me. I think her blog has gotten out of control in the past few months. People calling others names, calling their places of business, etc. It's become a stalkers dream. I think anyone who reads that blog is insane, it needs to be taken down.

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  90. She threatened you ? good grief. Her last entry is odd.I have to admit the video is a little odd, theatrical I guess, but really if you don't care for it don't watch the subject of the post is in fact just a child . The vitriol she spouts esp at a child is not appropriate, agian inciting a mob to attack , when that happens she will throw up her hands in inocence say "I just posted it I have no control over what others do"

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  91. If Americans find it so repugnant to eat horse meat that it is illegal to do so, why is it okay to slaughter them for human consumption overseas? I lived in Switzerland, a country that eats horses. You can buy Don Cavallo cuts of meat in all kinds of forms (steaks, salami, sausage etc.) in any grocery aisle right next to the cows and pigs. You know what though? THEY WON'T SELL THEIR OWN HORSES TO THE BUTCHER. They buy American - it is cheaper.

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  92. Yes, it is cheaper to buy american horse meat, that is because we irresponsibly breed horses that end up being slaughtered. I lived in Montreux and I know they eat it, what we forget about European countries is they have registries and regulations on the breeding of horses, something we as United States Citizens seem to not catch on to. I don't hate FUGLY and I think I've read as much inane and immature crap on here as I have on FUGLY. The difference is she isn't acting like a jealous teenager and speaking of your blog, your horses or your practices. She makes great points and yes, if you have a child on a horse without a helmet, you should get criticized. I, however, have a few horses, I feed them in flip flops, ride without a helmet occasionally and have been known to jump on in the pasture with nothing but a leadrope. Could I get hurt? You betcha! I am an adult on my own property with my own liability. I would not do so on anyone else's property. Helmet, proper attire, etc. would be a must.

    Everything I've read here has been about slamming Cathy with not near enough substance - I can say that at least there is substance to the back and forth on her page.

    Move on with your life, the fact alone that you have named your blog what you have makes me believe you are as bad as her, you're just passive-aggressive about it.

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